Author Topic: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.  (Read 4072 times)

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Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 06:18:51 am »
ok so the beige layer I've exposed here (and scraped up quite a lot..) is still the bark?

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 11:10:56 am »
Yes.
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 10:08:48 pm »
Hello all! Status report. 

Ive cleaned most of the bark off 2 quarter staves. 

The final layer of bark is beige and I can see the white wood in some places.  My question is this.  How am I supposed to cut off the bark without touching the white layer of wood underneath?  Am I allowed to touch it a bare minimum to remove all the bark?  Is it a case of keeping it in the same ring then ill be ok?  Or if I violate any of the fibres of the first ring then i'm screwed? 

Also Ive just straight up avoided the knotts.  Id like some advice on how to tackle them. 

Offline PatM

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 10:45:28 pm »
When did you cut the wood? The bark should peel on its own if it was cut recently. You need to learn how to remove bark without nicking rings if you want to eliminate the risks of violating a ring. I think you are misunderstanding where knots originate from. They come from the pith so working down rings will totally expose them rather than eliminate them.

mikekeswick

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 04:38:50 am »
Darksoul answered your last questions above.
A cabinet scraper will remove the rest of the cambium. Get a good one and learn how to sharpen it properly.

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 10:47:42 am »
So i leave the knots standing tall and gnarly on the back of the bow?

It was cut in feb.. I had some misinformation and left it as a log for a while.  I cant tell how you peel it off, mine is sticky as hell. 

Is violating a ring.. 1 gouging all the way threw it and cutting into the ring below  or 2 cutting partially into the ring.. say 50% of the way threw. or 3 cutting any amount into it no matter how fine.  Ive been working with the notion of 3.. but I don't see how its possible to remove all the bark and expose the upper layer of wood without cutting into it a hairs breadth at least some of the time.. even if i take it down to the last brown/beige layer + sand it then ill still go into it to expose it.  Very confused.  (p.s Im a complete beginner)   

Offline WillS

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 11:24:18 am »
It's easy to get frightened by the notion of "violating a ring" - even the term is pretty scary.  Keep everything simple and you'll enjoy this far more!

One of the issues with being a beginner (at least this is what I'm finding) is that unless you've handled, shot and inspected lots of good (and bad) quality bows, it's really hard to visualise what the books (and forum members!) are telling you.  When I made my first bow, I'd never even shot one before, let alone handled a well-made self bow.   I was completely in the dark, so everything seemed far more dramatic than it needed to be.

What looks like a "ring violation" to you is probably absolutely nothing, while something you might miss would be a major red flag to an experienced bowyer.  If you remove the bark and cambium with a scraper or edge of a knife carefully, I can't imagine you'd ever cause enough of a problem to break a bow.  If you go at it with a hatchet, and dig all the way into a growth ring right in a very stressed area of the bow, you MAY encounter problems.

Have you seen any of the bows on here with gigantic holes going all the way through a limb?  Handled with care, a bow can take a lot.  If you DO "violate" a growth ring completely, either go down to the next ring and start again, or leave that particular area of the bow slightly wider to accommodate for the issue.  Same with knots.

At this stage, you need to get some bows under your belt so that you can understand first hand what certain issues result in.  Crack on with what you're making, and if there are some funky bits, or you dig a bit too deep somewhere, either it will explode there and you'll know "that was too deep - more care next time" or you'll know "well it didn't break.  Obviously I didn't go far enough to cause a problem."  Either way, you've learned something new about bow building that you can use next time.

But I realise none of that is what you asked haha  ;D

Ring "violation" is going THROUGH a ring into the next one.  Most of the time the single back ring will be all sorts of thicknesses due to the bowyer not knowing how deep he's going the whole time.  Remember also that when your bow is finished, and tillered, you'll need to sand it all over both before and during applying a finish.  That will change the thickness of the growth ring as well.  Plus different woods can take different amounts of violation.  Yew for instance is essentially bullet proof when it comes to ring violations.  There's no need to keep a single one all the way along, unless you're talking about something with a draw weight of 100# or so.  I've found that ash can take a surprising amount of violation to it's back rings before it gives up.  And even then, a bit of superglue and some binding can save you on a good day!

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2013, 02:52:35 pm »
Awesome reply as ever cheers WillS "even the term is scary" lol

How should I deal with the knots?  Just get the bark off and leave them proud?  Bowyers bible says to file them.. but surely this will just expose more of them? 

Really my objective with these is to get the bark off and leave them for a year to season.  Gonna try to make a hazel bow + boards n stuff. 

Offline Bryce

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2013, 04:01:21 pm »
Just get the bark off and leave them proud?

Yes.
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline WillS

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2013, 04:02:27 pm »
Knots need to be handled in various ways, depending on their type and size, and position of them within the bow layout.

I found this quite helpful when learning how to handle knots

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/6214/Pin-Knot-Tutorial-Attempt-for-Osage-and-BL#.UZPWdehwbRY

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Advice following reflection on info from Bowyers bible.
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 06:12:57 pm »
How should I deal with the knots?  Just get the bark off and leave them proud?  Bowyers bible says to file them.. but surely this will just expose more of them? 
This can't be what the Traditional Bowyers Bible says. Pleas read that chapter/paragraph carefully again and try to understand what is being written. By now, you'll understand more of the terminology.

I don't say this too often to bowyers, but you are too cautious. Not trying to brag, but debarking such a stave should take an experienced bowyer no more than 30 minutes. A beginner maybe two hours. I think you're just working too diligently with this one, probably not with the correct tool. Take a sharp card scraper or even paint scraper, and apply HARD pressure. The tool will hog off the relatively soft bark and leave the hard wood unharmed. A sharp blade such as a (draw)knife will easily nick the wood underneath the bark - not good! Also remove all bark around knots. The wood will and should form a bulge, which is visible when you've removed the bark. Be careful around knots, as the wood is more erratic, but still remove all bark without touching the wood.
There is no need to set the stave aside for one year to let the wood dry. If you remove the bulk of excess wood, it will dry much faster. If you put the wood indoors, it can dry within  a month, once it is reduced in thickness. Of course you can practice on (dry) boards in the meantime.
Once the bark is removed, establish a center line and draw the width outline of the bow onto the back of the bow. Then cut the stave to width. Than draw the thickness profile on both sides and cut the stave to thickness. Clean up the corners and sides and start tillering, haha! :D In a nutshell basically, of course.

If you can continue posting pictures, you make it much easier for us to help you. We always crave for pics on this forum ;) We can catch things you might otherwise miss.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286