Fixin to start first Osage bow, design advice needed

[StickMan47]

I'll be headin back home for the weekend and want to get back to work on my first Osage bow. I chased the rings down last weekend and sealed her up with shellac, and I'm hopin to get her roughed out and floor tillered this weekend. This its the same stave from a previous post that started to check on me when I first began chasing the back rings. Got that problem fixed.

This will be my first Osage bow and so far I am loving this wood!! Even more than the ERC I  had. I have to say that of all the bows I see y'all make on here my absolute favorite design is those curvy reflex/deflex bows y'all turn out. Just something about those bows......

however, I don't think I'm up for building one of those yet. I really don't want to make a pyramid bow with this stave. I'm looking for a design that won't require the use of a form or caul, as I have not built one of those yet and don't have time right now to do so.

Don't got any pics but here's the dimensions of the stave: 70" long (I'm hoping to keep it at least 64" long); 1 1/4" thick on skinny end (from back to belly); 1 1/8" wide across back on that same skinny end. Stave is knot free, with the exception of a few small pins on one limb. Rings are fairly thick, although they narrow in thickness a little at that skinny end.

I'm hoping to get 50# @28". I'd also like a design that will lend itself to a snappy quick shooting bow. (isn't that what we all are trying for lol). Hopefully I can pull this off. So what would you do? Some dimensions other than the normal pyramid design would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard.

[Joec123able]

 For Osage, it lends itself to and works really well with the pyramid design since its a very efficient design its my favorite. It doesn't sound wide enough for a mollegabet, idk the name of the design where you limbs are the same width all the way down the limb then tapers in at the last 6 inchs it's one of the simplest flatbow designs I know of I cant think of many more designs

[DarkSoul]

How wide is the stave at the future fades? The fades of a bow will always be the widest point, so the width at those fades-to-be is critical. The tips will be the narrowest point, so a width of 1 1/8" at the tip of a stave is unimportant. The width determines the possibilities of a stave.

A "snappy quick shooting bow" is more about tillering than anything else. Although a reflex/deflex bow has the potential to be slightly faster than a straight flatbow, it is easy to mess up the tiller so the straight flatbow can still outperform it. Since you are a beginner, a reflex/deflex should not be on top of your list. A flatbow or pyramid (if the stave is wide enough) would be more realistic.

[SLIMBOB]

If I'm reading correctly, your maximum width will be 1 1/8"  If so, thats too narrow for a pyramid IMO.  If it were me, I would make the center 1/3 parallel, then taper the outers from there.  Have you decided on bendy or stiff handle?  1 1/8" is narrow, and it may take some set with a stiff riser at 50# 28", even at 64" long.  If it were me, I would have it bend right up to or even thru the handle a bit.

[StickMan47]

Thanks Guys. I finally got home yesterday evening and was just plain old beat! I got the stave out this morning and took a look at it and yea its skinny! I think you may be right SLIMBOB. I don't think I'll have the limb width on the skinny end to do much with.

I just re-measured that skinny limb, from the center of the stave I have an 1 5/8" it tapers down to an inch on the tip. about mid-limb I have an 1 3/8". But with the split on the belly side I'm thinking a bendy handle is my only option now.

well I reckon I got some reading to do. I have not researched proper dimensions for a bendy handle; but do like the pics of the ones I see on here. One question tho, is a bendy handle gonna have a lot of handshock??? Or is that caused by a bad tiller? 

[StickMan47]

Just thought of something else. I was just looking at some of the trade bows going out this year and notice quite a few with "flipped tips"? Am I right to assume that these are not full reflex/deflex bows or a true recurve? And if i was to flip the tips on this bendy handle design, do I have to use a caul and is it best to use steam or dry heat? And since I'm asking all these questions, here's one more.  If I'm making a bendy handle, or slightly bendy handle, is my limb profile going to be "D" shaped; that is with a rounded belly and flat back? How thick should the handle area be, approxiamately, in order to bend slightly?

I know I am full of noob questions and appologize for that. Girlfriend has me pretty busy today but one way or another tomorrow is bow day!! I'm gonna get this thing shaped out before leaving again!

I appreciate everyone's advice and patience a graeat deal. Thanks

[SLIMBOB]

Flat belly, just like you would on a stiff handle, no difference.  1 5/8" is plenty wide enough for a stiff handle.  Not sure what split on the belly you refer to, but stiff or bendy, your choice.  A bendy should really have no more hand shock than a stiff handle bow.  Get your tips narrow and lite.  Reflex deflex is one of my favorite designs, but keep it simple this early on IMO (no r/d).  If the stave is straight, keep it that way.  Dry heat or steam will bend the tips.  I use dry heat on dry Osage, but steam will work and is probably safer to bend the tips.  A caul is great, but not necessary.  If you go bendy handle, 1 1/4 wide for the middle 1/3 and then taper to 3/8" tips.  You can narrow the handle a little if you wish, but that's a matter of comfort, you make that call.  64" long.  Draw it out and take the sides down to near your profile marks (I leave it a little wide, 1/8" or so on each side).  Leave the tips 1" wide for now.  start taking wood off the belly until it bends a little at floor tiller.  If the handle is the same width as the limb, then the handle will be the same thickness as the limb (near handle), just slightly thicker.  Hard for me to say what that thickness will be.  Just thin enough to bend a little.  If you take a 2x4 and put enough pressure on each end, the board will bend in the middle.  Same with your bow, it will bend there first if it is too thin and you don't want that.  Get the handle bending last after the limbs are bending some, so leave it thicker to start.  I'm no expert, but what you are attempting is a fairly simple design, it will shoot well, it's safe and one I have made plenty of.  If you flip the tips, I say be conservative with it at this point.

[StickMan47]

SLIMBOB: The split I referred to was were the stave was split from the original log. On that skinny limb, where it split following the grain, it ran up close to the back. I roughed the stave out last night for a flat belly bendy handle. the only spot that is gonna give me problems now is where that split didn't leave enough wood for my limb thickness and width. That spot is right at the beggining of the middle third of the limb coming from the handle. I roughed out the sides and the belly like you said. After I got that done that portion of the limb is 1 3/8" wide. That split goes from the edge of the limb in toward the center of the stave about 3/8". So I guess my question now is will 1" wide limbs starting at the middle third of my limb, still allow me a 45 to 50lb bow?

Is there another way you experts, and yes I consider you an expert SLIMBOB you have made some very nice bows, Is there another way ya'll deal with this kind of issue? Just wondering if there is something else I can do that I'm not thinkin of???

Thanks again for all the advice and help. 

[SLIMBOB]

Nope, not an expert, just a guy who enjoys the process enough to keep pluggin away, and juuusst smart enough to know, I'm no expert.  Bendy handle, 64" long, 1 inch wide mid-limb, yes.  Hard to know without seeing the bow exactly what you are talking about, but 1 inch wide mid-limb is doable.  Just keep your width for as far as you can before your width taper starts.  I just finished a 60" Osage self bow that is 1 1/4" wide middle third, pulling 50ish at 27.  Its an inch wide not far past mid-limb.  As far as other options, I can't think of any.  Maybe someone else will come up with something to consider.

[StickMan47]

Thanks for the help SLIMBOB. I know its difficult giving advice and not having any pics to look at and I am trying to give the best description i can. All thats left to do now is to go for it! I'll work on trying to get some pics up.

[SLIMBOB]

Glad to help a fellow Texican!