Guidance on vine maple knots

[Dan K]

I started my first vine maple and have some nots ending up on the edge.  Not sure if I should leave them or cut them out.  It's currently 69" ttt 1 1/2" wide at the fades pyramid shape to 1/2"  Hope to end up around 55~ @ 28"  I already know I need to bend at the handle to get string centered but not sure what to do about the knots. 


Pics show a small knot in the upper limb that I'd like to cut out and the bigger one at the fade I'll probably leave but if I can remove it too the better.



Bigger knot in the fade



  The punk knot in the lower limb I think I can clean up but I'm not sure if I should dig it out or leave it alone.  Any help from the vine experts on what to do with all three of these is appreciated.

[ionicmuffin]

well your back is violated

[bow101]

well your back is violated

I thought it did not really matter if back was violated on maple (VM)..?

[Bryce]

VM can take light violations. But I would suggest backing for better odds of success.
The knots (other than the violations) don't look like anything to worry about.

[Mark Smeltzer]

That was the first thing I was thinking, the violations on the back may give you issues but I would leave the knots and work them into the bow.

Mark

[Joec123able]

well your back is violated

I thought it did not really matter if back was violated on maple (VM)..?

That wouldn't make sence what makes maple so special that you can violate your back??

[ionicmuffin]

the two that i can think of that take well to violations are hickory and yew. if it isn't either of those then its more of a big deal. Bryce has worked VM a lot so i would imagine that he knows about how much it can take, still, violations make chills run down my spine.

[Mark Smeltzer]

I think what Bryce said is correct, you can go through a ring and probably be ok but I with VM there is no reason to go through the rings. Take the bark off, sand and that is your back.

[Gordon]

You can violate the rings on vine maple a bit (in fact it is envitable because the rings are so thin), but you've gone well beyond that point. Also that punky area could definitely give you problems.

[Dan K]

Thank you all for your comments.  I wasn't sure on the rings when taking the bark off -first time with this wood.  The silky layer right under the bark I thought was the cadmium so I took it off.  Obviously wrong on that call

Now, I hope all is not lost.  Can I sand it down smooth and back it with rawhide, silk or sinew?

If I can save it, maybe this is a good one to recurve too.

[Bryce]

Silk has my vote. If you need any I have alot your more than welcome to use.

[steve b.]

It wouldn't have mattered, Dan--with that punky wood near midlimb you would have had to remove all that anyway, thus violating the back.  So that bow would have been backed from the beginning.  Use the curved scraper to remove the soft or flaky  wood then sand the whole back down with 150 grit and back it with rawhide or sinew.  I have a couple to back also, if you want some help.  If you don't want it I'll trade you another stave for it.

[Dan K]

Thank you all for your ideas and direction.  I'm gonna use this as a training bow and hopefully end up with a shooter.  I'll keep you posted and seek help if I need it.

Cheers!

[Weylin]

The silky layer does come off and it should reveal a smooth continuous layer of hard wood. If that's all you did then you are fine (aside from the punky wood). In the picture it looks rough and violated but is that roughess just left over bits of cambium or did you go past that first layer of hard wood?

[Dan K]

Hmmm... don't know for sure cause I've never worked this wood before.  I started cleaning up the stave and realized I was cleaning wood I was going to cut off so I stopped and shaped it into what you see now.  My plan was to go back after I had it floor tillered and finnish cleaning the back.  It very well could be ok I just don't know what "ok" is.