Author Topic: I only managed to split my log! :D  (Read 5715 times)

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Offline Caveman_Sam

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I only managed to split my log! :D
« on: May 02, 2013, 05:13:42 pm »
So, Gentlemen.

I split my log!  Turns out splitting wedges and a sledge hammer do the trick!

Its in roughly equal quarters.  2 are slightly banana shaped off to one side due to the bottom of the trunk being bigger than the top, I think. 1 is pretty good and 1 is Exellent, dead straight with a mild and even natural recurve (or decurve not sure on this..? The stave bends away from the direction you would pull to draw it..  Aparently this is good for speed and power (possibly the same thing?)

Im worried that in the drying process they might twist again?  I'm asking for advice on how to store them to ensure that I keep the sweet recurve stave straight and recurved.. 

Also should I be waxing up the ends?  Or will all the inner exposed fibres keep things drying evenly?

Many thanks to every one who has commented on my previous posts and given me the encouragement and knowledge to get this far!  I don't know any bowyers and I'm a 1st generation wood worker in my family.  So hence why my questions might seem a little noobish.  This so far has been my only point of call where I can actually ask questions and have them answered.  So ill say it again! Many thanks guys! :) .

Offline Eric Garza

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 05:26:56 pm »
It would help to have a sense for the dimensions of the log you split, and the species. Is this an 8 foot log that's 12 inches in diameter? or just a little sapling that barely split into four usable quarters? I'd definitely seal the ends, and I might also get the bark off ASAP and seal what will be the bow's back. If the stave is thin or narrow enough to bend at this point, it will probably twist or warp as it dries. Best to leave it overly wide and thick enough that you can't bend it, so while it will take longer to dry it will also dry in the same shape that it's in now.

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 05:45:30 pm »
Fair point.  Its Ash, 6'4 by 9 or 10"  The quarters are large. Maybe not quite large enough to split again, but there will be a lot of wood taken off these to make a bow. 

Definitely cant twist them, they're still hard enough to pick up!

I placed the reflex stave belly down, so that the weight of the stave isn't pushing it back straight, although I guess there is weight on the limbs. 

Ive been trying to learn how to chase rings on small staff sized pieces of hazel.  Its a bit daunting because I'm inexperienced.  The rings on the ash staves look to be pretty wide though.   

When I take the bark off I should chase a ring?  how many down?  Do you still need heart wood and outer wood? Or is that for english longbows? 

Offline twisted hickory

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 05:48:04 pm »
Sam,
I havn't made that many bow only 7 and I would suggest a flat bow that is a long bow. It is a simpler design and you will find as I that it will be a bit of a challenge for your first bow.
Welcome to the addiction :) Mine started when I decided this winter to make a bow for myself instead of buying an expensive fg bow...I love them (the self bows).

greg

Offline twisted hickory

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 05:50:19 pm »
Fair point.  Its Ash, 6'4 by 9 or 10"  The quarters are large. Maybe not quite large enough to split again, but there will be a lot of wood taken off these to make a bow. 

Definitely cant twist them, they're still hard enough to pick up!

I placed the reflex stave belly down, so that the weight of the stave isn't pushing it back straight, although I guess there is weight on the limbs. 

Ive been trying to learn how to chase rings on small staff sized pieces of hazel.  Its a bit daunting because I'm inexperienced.  The rings on the ash staves look to be pretty wide though.   

When I take the bark off I should chase a ring?  how many down?  Do you still need heart wood and outer wood? Or is that for english longbows?


I think with ash you just carefully remove the bark and that is your back. I chased a ring on hickory once and it was a pain. Woods you chase rings on are osage orange and locust.
Greg

Offline RBLusthaus

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 06:05:58 pm »
For ash, the sap wood ring under the bark will be your bows back -  so there will be no chasing rings in your future. 

I would remove the bark (as much as you can wo digging into the sap wood) and then coat the back and end with shellac.  Then wait for about a year unless you do some sort of quick drying (you can read numerous posts about the process). 

Russ

Offline WillS

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 07:32:46 pm »
The English Ash I get here in Bournemouth is excellent without needing to chase a ring.  When I take the tree down, I split the logs then rip the bark off as quickly as possible.  Either with a drawknife or it was cut at the right time then just by pulling it off in one go.  Then the ends are sealed with PVA glue or some paint, and left for a good year or so.

Ash needs to be REALLY dry to avoid getting any set, but if you have a bow design ready to go, rough a stave or two out to almost floor tiller size, then it'll dry far quicker.  Don't keep it anywhere too hot early on, but gradually moving it inside, then somewhere with decent airflow and not too hot/cold should be fine over a period of a few months. 

Ash will need to be heat treated before, during and sometimes even after tillering to keep it quick and resist set, and you'll have the same problems I do, if you're working in Cornwall - the coastal air makes everything annoyingly humid, so every time you work on the bow a bit, put it somewhere dry and warm for a day or two before doing more work on it. 

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 11:30:39 pm »
I still haven't managed to get my hands on a draw knife.  Been to a few 2nd hand and junkshop kind of places n a car boot and still cant find an old one.  I was told all new ones are rubbish as no one is making decent ones any more.  I'm considering forking out the £95 for a Ben Orford one.. its hand made by him and he seems very experienced and trustworthy so even though its new I feel it could be good.  I still haven't got a shave horse or a workbench/vice set up though, so i'm not sure even having one would let me use it. 

I started off with a small multi tool and a few screwdrivers when my g/f bought me a log for my birthday cos i had been banging on about wanting to make a bow.  Now I have a sledge hammer, steel wedge, wooden wedges that I carved with; Small forest Axe, Mora 711 knife, handsaws x2, file, wood rasp  (also sandpaper and wood glue n stuff left over from making an african harp!)  So the collection is going well! lol

It was cut in mid/early February.. I Stored it for about 6/8 weeks with sealed ends before comming on here n ppl said I needed to split it asap.  dunno if the bark will 'rip' off.  Best tool for job that I own atm seems to be the mora knife. Any reason that this tool is just wrong?  ive been playing with stripping hazel bark with it and im ok at it/quite confident.  I know it will be slower.. but there will be many small shaves rather than fewer longer/larger ones from a draw knife. 

With hazel bark there seems to be the skin of the bark.. and then an underside of residue/thicker and squishy fibres.  after these are gone there seems to be the somewhat veiny remains of the squishy layer attached to the first layer of wood. To remove the veiny remains you 'have' to cut into this first layer.  Is this the same for ash? 

Offline WillS

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 04:28:08 am »
Hard to describe without seeing it as you do it, but in essence, you have bark, then cambium (soft and squishy) and then the solid back of your bow.  These may be thicker/thinner than other woods, and even vary within the same species so you kind of have to play it by eye as you go.  The last piece of ash I worked on had the green/grey bark, then an almost pink/brown layer of cambium and the moment I was through that I saw nice clean white wood which was the back of the bow.

The mora will be perfect for getting the bark off, so have at it with that.  The worst case scenario is that you dig into the nice solid back of the bow by accident, but if that happens you just have to chase a ring all the way along instead.  I tend to remove all the outer bark any way possible, and leave the cambium fairly intact.  As the bow is worked down and moves towards being finished, the cambium either dries and flakes off, or can be sanded/scraped off in time.  Or left on! Bows look stunning with streaks of cambium remaining!

As for the use of a drawknife without a shaving horse - I've never had a horse or bench, and I love using my drawknife.  A little unusual probably, but what I do is either lean the stave against something and use the drawknife downwards, or more preferably wedge the tip of the stave up against a wall, back up and lower it down until it's just above horizontal.  Tuck a towel between the other end and my body, and lean into the stave so I'm keeping it steady, then use the drawknife cutting towards me, as if it were on a shaving horse. 

Even better, pick up a cheap Black & Decker workmate, the tool box type with clamping wooden vice lid.  You can store all your bow making tools in it, and use the lid to hold a stave or bow fairly rigid while you work on it.

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 09:42:44 am »
Ahh ok, soI will use the knife to take off the bark skin, going into the layer of cambium in order to get underneath it.  If I actually take off any white wood at all I have gone too deep?  So its just the bark skin that dries hard and is a pain to get off, the camium will actually come off easier at a later date?

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 10:11:54 am »
Don't focus on finding that illusive cambium. It is a VERY thin layer, only one or a few CELLS thick. The cambium is usually taken off together with the bark. Don't expect you need to remove the bark first and then remove the cambium as a second task - it's all done in one go. In ash, the bark and cambium are very easy to distinguish from the wood. The latter is much lighter in color and much harder in texture. If you take a dull tool, you'll not have a problem with removing the bark and cambium, while the wood is too hard for the dull tool.
Try to peel the bark off in one piece, if that's possible. If it's stuck tight to the wood, you can use a sharp (draw)knife to get half of the thickness of the bark off the wood. Be careful not to dig into the wood with the sharp knife. Then take a dull knife or scraper and remove the last half of the thickness of the bark. Apply a lot of pressure and make scraping movements, rather than slicing movements. The bark (and cambium) will flake off, while your tool will slide over the harder wood.

Do some testing on a piece of scrap wood, or the edges of the staves near the tips where you have plenty of wood to spare.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 10:22:35 am »
Thats fantastic advice! Could something as dull as a round metal kitchen knife do the trick? 

What is your opinions on this as a small traveling version of a draw knife.. until I can get my paws on one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYWaWA_2gVU

Offline Jodocus

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 12:00:07 pm »
don't chase rings on hazel, either. It's probably a pain anyway...
Don't shoot!

Offline WillS

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2013, 01:15:59 pm »
Don't focus on finding that illusive cambium. It is a VERY thin layer, only one or a few CELLS thick. The cambium is usually taken off together with the bark. Don't expect you need to remove the bark first and then remove the cambium as a second task - it's all done in one go.

The English ash I've used had pretty thick cambium (or at least, thick in comparison to some other types) and still needed to be removed once the bark was off.  I like leaving it on, as it looks pretty ace when it's streaky.  It dries a nice colour too, once the air gets to it.

Awesome idea about using a blunt tool to remove the bark - would never have thought of it!  I always get stuck in with a drawknife and end up gouging chunks out of the back.

Offline Caveman_Sam

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Re: I only managed to split my log! :D
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2013, 07:38:03 pm »
so after I have taken the bark off will i need to 'back' the bow?