Hickory Sap/Heart?

[Del the cat]

A guy at our club buys in cheapo Hickory ELBs from the USA to sell as beginers bows. They are prob' not propperly seasoned or too high MC (ok as a cheap 'first bow')
Anyhow he asked me this.
"one is really odd. It is already curved about 4  inches, but the back is very dark with a white belly.  It almost look like yew. Does hickory grow like that?. It is such a strange looking bow I might keep it."

Now this sounds a bit bonkers to me as the ones I'd seen were edge grain rather than ring followed so I don't see how back and belly could be different .
Any thoughts comments?
Del

BTW I took one these bows that had a bout 3" of set, heat treated it, slimed the tips, re-tillered it and gained about 20fps at the same draw weight.
This post has a pic of the bow.. next post shows the results.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/big-bow-detail-and-hickory-challenge.html

[Dean Marlow]

Del
  Hickory sometimes will hardly have very little heartwood in it and others will just have a little white sapwood and a-lot of heartwood in it. I have been working up some Hickory and one log is darn near all white sap wood and the other one has about a 1-1/2" of white sap and the rest is heartwood. If I get time I will take some pics of it and show you. To get a heartwood back and I white sap wood belly you just about had to follow a ring to get that. Dean

[Del the cat]

Cheers, does the heart and sap behave about the same?
Del

[twisted hickory]

Cheers, does the heart and sap behave about the same?
Del

Yup,
I followed ring on a 50 inch kids bow one time and it functions the same as sap wood only a different color.
Greg

[Hrothgar]

Del, I'm still working on my first cup of coffee, so I may not be following what you asked. Hickory, like most white woods, still has a dark center, and as Dean mentioned the heart wood can vary some in both degree of darkness and size. Depending how this bow/stave was cut at the saw mill it might very well have a percentage of the board heartwood. Although hickory sapwood is recognized as slightly better than the sapwood I believe that wood bows made from staves that the heartwood is still the belly of the bow and the sapwood side is the back (at least this is how I  have always worked it). What I find intriguing is that the bow you looked at is concaved 4 inches toward the darker side (?). As you know a stave while often warp slighty toward the bark side (the lighter color) when drying--maybe it was cut from a warped trunk?

[Dean Marlow]

Wow I learned something here. I was always told that the heartwood in Hickory isn't much count. Burned a bunch of it. But will keep it from now on. Heartwood Hickory is beautiful wood when finished. Here is a pic of a couple of different ends on a couple different Hickory logs. One has a-lot of sap and the other one has more heartwood. Dean

[Pat B]

I think hickory heartwood is more brittle than the sapwood. It should work well for belly wood.

[Del the cat]

Thanks for the replies, and those nice pics.
I haven't actually seen the bow in question. I was just asked by a guy at the club and as I didn't know I thought I'd ask you guys from where the stuff actually grows:)
Del

[twisted hickory]

I think hickory heartwood is more brittle than the sapwood. It should work well for belly wood.

I have heard that before but I tillered out a 50 inch kids bow with a 6 inch stiff handle to 22 inches and it shot great. I did back it with rawhide after tillering and shooting some cause ya know what kids do to their bows The bow took little set and shot great. BTW it was my first bow. Maybe I was just lucky
Greg

[toomanyknots]

I'm kinda curious about this too. Is the heartwood weaker in tension? It seems a bit more brittle?