Slice of humble pie.

[warpath]

I've noticed that if they're breaking bows using the step through method, they're doing it wrong! Most people don't know how to do it properly therefore putting all the stress on one limb. This is usually because they're in a rush and/or not paying attention to what they're doing. Handle goes on the hip people!! That is all.

  G

[Gordon]

I'm very selective about who I will make/sell a bow to. They have to be familar with wooden bows and appreciate the care required to properly use and maintain one. I've turned away a lot of requests over the years - it's just not worth the risk. And because of that, I could never make any money at this.

[Onebowonder]

So, ...was your humble pie at least a nice Plum Pie?   

OneBow

[toomanyknots]

had a guy beg me to sell him a bow, so I did and showed him how to do push/pull to string it, a year later I hear it broke on him so I got ahold of him to hear what happened, said it shot great for about 10 mos then it just broke while stringing it, asked how he strung it , step thru, man i was pissed, told him not to string it like that when he got it in the first place, then told him i'd make him a replacement, ONE TIME, some guys do what they want even when ya tell them not to, Bub

Yes, this happens. I make every bow I can that will be going to someone else able to be strung with a 2 loop cord stringer. It's easier on the bow, and safer for the person stringing it. Plus, it really sucks to put that much work into something and have someone just break it out of shear ignorance. The only bows I don't make able to be strung with a stringer usually are recurves with diamond nocks. And I tell them 10 times, as well as give them a little booklet I made explaining how and why, to use the stringer always. I think using a booklet or pamphlet is a good idea, as there really is alot of things that can be bad for a selfbow, and the majority of people will have no idea about any of them. And just tell them frankly, "You could easily end up breaking the bow if you string it wrong, and if you haven't dealt with selfbows before, you most likely will break it". Be honest, scare em straight,  . I think the main reason someone breaks a bow while stringing it, is because they force too much pressure on one limb, or just because they are over bending the bow when trying to string it, typically with one nock jammed against the ground. Just the physics of stringing a bow like that is asking for bad things.

[Squirrelslayer]

Humble pi = 3.14159 26535 89793 23846 26433 83279 50288 41971 69399 37510 58209 74944 59230 78164 06286 20899 86280 34825 34211 70679 82148 08651 32823 06647 09384 46095 50582 23172 53594 08128 48111 74502 84102 70193 85211 05559 64462 29489 54930 38196 44288 10975 66593 34461 28475 64823 37867 83165 27120 19091 45648 56692 34603 48610 45432 66482 13393 60726 02491 41273 72458 70066 06315 58817 48815 20920 96282 92540 91715 36436 78925 90360 01133 05305 48820 46652 13841 46951 94151 16094 33057 27036 57595 91953 09218 61173 81932 61179 31051 18548 07446 23799 62749 56735 18857 52724 89122 79381 83011 94912 98336 73362 44065 66430 86021 39494 63952 24737 19070 21798 60943 70277 05392 17176 29317 67523 84674 81846 76694 05132 00056 81271 45263 56082 77857 71342 75778 96091 73637 17872 14684 40901 22495 34301 46549 58537 10507 92279 68925 89235 42019 95611 21290 21960 86403 44181 59813 62977 47713 09960 51870 72113 49999 99837 29780 49951 05973 17328 16096 31859 50244 59455 34690 83026 42522 30825 33446 85035 26193 11881 71010 00313 78387 52886 58753 32083 81420 61717 76691 47303 59825 34904 28755 46873 11595 62863 88235 37875 93751 95778 18577 80532 17122 68066 13001 92787 66111 95909 21642 01989 38095 25720 10654 85863 27886 59361 53381 82796 82303 01952 03530 18529 68995 77362 25994 13891 24972 17752 83479 13151 55748 57242 45415 06959 50829 53311 68617 27855 88907 50983 81754 63746 49393 19255 06040 09277 01671 13900 98488 24012 85836 16035 63707 66010 47101 81942 95559 61989 46767 83744 94482 55379 77472 68471 04047 53464 62080 46684 25906 94912 93313 67702 89891 52104 75216 20569 66024 

[toomanyknots]

....so they engage in a muscle contest with the bow and pull it to their ears

That is never no problem with me, drawing to my ear is like, what, 20" or so? 

[toomanyknots]

I will say though, one kid i taught wont stop shooting his bow! hes been shooting it around 100 per day and up to 6 times a week. hes really getting into it, more than i expected.

That is awesome.

[toomanyknots]

at the end of the day bows need to be used/treated properly or they can fail, and if someone buys one, they need to understand this.

See, I think anyone who wants to sell bows, should include a little pamphlet or booklet with their bow that says "READ BEFORE USING", and this quote above should be the first sentence...  And then after that, move on to the more specific things such as stringing and shooting methods, etc. Here is a copy paste of mine I give people, feel free to use, or make any suggestions:

 How To Care For   
      Your Bow
 

     
     Dear Archer,

There is nothing as enchanting as shooting a hand crafted traditional wooden bow, but such a bow must be cared for properly, as misusing or mistreating such a bow can and will easily damage or outright destroy a traditional bow. Even worse, improper use can lead to physical injury to yourself or others, so please do you and your bow a favor, and read on about how to properly care for your bow!

       How To String Your Bow   
It is ALWAYS recommended to string your bow using the bow stringer included, or a similar two loop cord bow stringer. Using a bow stringer will prevent damage to the nocks, and will prevent stressing one limb more than the other, which is very important for the health of your bow. There are many methods to string a bow, such as the push pull method, or the step through method, but these can be tricky, and stressful on the bow if done wrong, as well as dangerous to the individual. Many people new to archery and unfamiliar with a certain stringing method can easily damage a bow using such methods, by putting undue stress on one limb which can throw the tiller off over time, or even outright break the limb. Jamming the nock into the ground can as well damage or break the nock off. Using the push pull method can send the bow tip flying right back at your face if you slip, which is especially dangerous when attempting to string a recurve in such a way. If stringing a recurve that is designed without an extra stringer groove, I recommend using the step through method. Fortunately though, it is very likely that your bow was designed to be strung with a bow stringer.
   
      How to use a bow stringer
1 – Slide the bigger loop of the bow string over the top nock and down the limb, so that it sits on the top limb well below the nock.
2 – Place the smaller bottom loop of the bow string  into the bottom nocks string groove.
3 – Place the bow stringers  loop over the bow string loop of the bottom nock, so that it rests right behind the bow string loop securely, and if possible, inside the bottom nock as well.
4 – Place the other loop of the bow stringer into the stringer groove (second groove) of the top nock.
5 – Step on the bow stringer exactly in the middle of the cord with one of your feet.
6 – While holding the bow by the handle, pull up on the bow vertically, and slide the top bow string loop into the string groove, making certain to check it is securely positioned before letting down on the bow.
7 – To unstring the bow, simply repeat the process. Note: Always try to stress the limbs evenly while using the bow stringer.



   General Care For Your Bow

- NEVER draw your bow past its maximum draw length. It has been said that a bow at fulldraw is seven eighths broken. Drawing your bow past its maximum draw length can easily damage it.  If you do not know your own draw length, one way to make sure you do not over draw the bow is to use arrow shafts that are the length of the bows maximum draw length.
- ALWAYS unstring the bow when not in use. Leaving your bow strung when not in use can sap performance from the bow and cause excess string follow. Leaving a bow strung overnight even can ruin a new bow.
- NEVER dry fire your bow. Dry fire means shoot the bow without an arrow. Doing so can break the string, and possibly your bow with it. This is very bad for a bow whether or not that happens, either way.
- ALWAYS be mindful of how you store the bow, and be hesitant of extreme temperatures and drops in humidity. Do not leave your bow in a hot car on a hot day, as this could cause the bow to warp. Do not leave your bow next to a radiator, or a central air vent, or anything that will dry the bow out. When wood becomes too dry, it becomes brittle. In the winter time when the air is dry, is the most common time for a wooden bow to fail and break.
- ALWAYS exercise the bows limbs a couple times before taking it fulldraw after stringing the bow. Especially on cold days.
- NEVER let someone else draw your bow. They could easily try to over draw the bow to see how far they can draw it,  and break your bow. Never let someone else string your bow for that matter. If they would like to see the bow, hand it to them without the string so they cannot attempt to string and draw the bow.
Your bow was hand crafted with great love and care. With some common sense, proper care, and respect, it should outlast you. Thank you for your purchase, and I hope your new bow serves you well!
                                                               

                 

[Bryce]

at the end of the day bows need to be used/treated properly or they can fail, and if someone buys one, they need to understand this.

See, I think anyone who wants to sell bows, should include a little pamphlet or booklet with their bow that says "READ BEFORE USING", and this quote above should be the first sentence...  And then after that, move on to the more specific things such as stringing and shooting methods, etc. Here is a copy paste of mine I give people, feel free to use, or make any suggestions:

 How To Care For   
      Your Bow
 

     
     Dear Archer,

There is nothing as enchanting as shooting a hand crafted traditional wooden bow, but such a bow must be cared for properly, as misusing or mistreating such a bow can and will easily damage or outright destroy a traditional bow. Even worse, improper use can lead to physical injury to yourself or others, so please do you and your bow a favor, and read on about how to properly care for your bow!

       How To String Your Bow   
It is ALWAYS recommended to string your bow using the bow stringer included, or a similar two loop cord bow stringer. Using a bow stringer will prevent damage to the nocks, and will prevent stressing one limb more than the other, which is very important for the health of your bow. There are many methods to string a bow, such as the push pull method, or the step through method, but these can be tricky, and stressful on the bow if done wrong, as well as dangerous to the individual. Many people new to archery and unfamiliar with a certain stringing method can easily damage a bow using such methods, by putting undue stress on one limb which can throw the tiller off over time, or even outright break the limb. Jamming the nock into the ground can as well damage or break the nock off. Using the push pull method can send the bow tip flying right back at your face if you slip, which is especially dangerous when attempting to string a recurve in such a way. If stringing a recurve that is designed without an extra stringer groove, I recommend using the step through method. Fortunately though, it is very likely that your bow was designed to be strung with a bow stringer.
   
      How to use a bow stringer
1 – Slide the bigger loop of the bow string over the top nock and down the limb, so that it sits on the top limb well below the nock.
2 – Place the smaller bottom loop of the bow string  into the bottom nocks string groove.
3 – Place the bow stringers  loop over the bow string loop of the bottom nock, so that it rests right behind the bow string loop securely, and if possible, inside the bottom nock as well.
4 – Place the other loop of the bow stringer into the stringer groove (second groove) of the top nock.
5 – Step on the bow stringer exactly in the middle of the cord with one of your feet.
6 – While holding the bow by the handle, pull up on the bow vertically, and slide the top bow string loop into the string groove, making certain to check it is securely positioned before letting down on the bow.
7 – To unstring the bow, simply repeat the process. Note: Always try to stress the limbs evenly while using the bow stringer.



   General Care For Your Bow

- NEVER draw your bow past its maximum draw length. It has been said that a bow at fulldraw is seven eighths broken. Drawing your bow past its maximum draw length can easily damage it.  If you do not know your own draw length, one way to make sure you do not over draw the bow is to use arrow shafts that are the length of the bows maximum draw length.
- ALWAYS unstring the bow when not in use. Leaving your bow strung when not in use can sap performance from the bow and cause excess string follow. Leaving a bow strung overnight even can ruin a new bow.
- NEVER dry fire your bow. Dry fire means shoot the bow without an arrow. Doing so can break the string, and possibly your bow with it. This is very bad for a bow whether or not that happens, either way.
- ALWAYS be mindful of how you store the bow, and be hesitant of extreme temperatures and drops in humidity. Do not leave your bow in a hot car on a hot day, as this could cause the bow to warp. Do not leave your bow next to a radiator, or a central air vent, or anything that will dry the bow out. When wood becomes too dry, it becomes brittle. In the winter time when the air is dry, is the most common time for a wooden bow to fail and break.
- ALWAYS exercise the bows limbs a couple times before taking it fulldraw after stringing the bow. Especially on cold days.
- NEVER let someone else draw your bow. They could easily try to over draw the bow to see how far they can draw it,  and break your bow. Never let someone else string your bow for that matter. If they would like to see the bow, hand it to them without the string so they cannot attempt to string and draw the bow.
Your bow was hand crafted with great love and care. With some common sense, proper care, and respect, it should outlast you. Thank you for your purchase, and I hope your new bow serves you well!
                                                               

                 

I do have a card similar to this... Just alot shorter. Mind if he all snag this?

[Eric Krewson]

Sold a lot of bows, replaced more than a few, no questions asked but that was back when I lived to make bows and really looked forward to making another one.

Liability concerns, carpel tunnel problems, dust allergy's and breakage made me rethink the money aspect of selling bows. I prefer to make an occasional bow an give it away to a special person who has done a lot for traditional archery or donate one to be auctioned to raise money for a worthy charity.  I will occasionally make one for an old customer who has been good to me. 

[George Tsoukalas]

Humble pie? Oh yes. I invented the recipe. I don't sell bows. So i can't relate any stories of customer breaks but I've had enough of my own over the years. Jawge

[toomanyknots]

I do have a card similar to this... Just alot shorter. Mind if he all snag this?

Not at all, please do,  .

[Joec123able]

Never sold a bow and never will. self bows are bows you should build for your self. people who have shot compound contraptions and fiberglass bows there whole life will just not treat a selfbow like it should be treated.

[rossfactor]

Jawge you crack me up. 

Good discussion y'all, I like that 'problems' often turn into the best bowyering experiences. Time to use my favorite Wendell Berry quote:

“There are, it seems, two muses: the Muse of Inspiration, who gives us inarticulate visions and desires, and the Muse of Realization, who returns again and again to say "It is yet more difficult than you thought." This is the muse of form. It may be then that form serves us best when it works as an obstruction, to baffle us and deflect our intended course. It may be that when we no longer know what to do, we have come to our real work and when we no longer know which way to go, we have begun our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings.”

I love me some Wendell Berry,

Gabe

[rossfactor]

I don't see anything wrong with selling a bow (in an of itself).  Selling a bow can still ignite the spark of bowyering, or bow hunting in the recipient.

Maybe it becomes wrong if you start making them like you're going to sell them and not like labor of love that you would make for a dear friend or a family member.  But, if I stop doing that, than I shouldn't be making bows at all.

Gabe