Ash "holmegård" (pics)

[Kviljo]

I haven't red that article, but I'd love to. I'll see if I can find it on the web. That ozbow.com-page looks to be a page for some guys making and selling bows for a musical instrument...?

If the outer limbs are not bending at all, they are being overly heavy, and performance will be really bad. They need to bend just a little, to make sure they are as light as possible. The small amount of bend won't do much harm to the energy storage.

Jürgen Junkmanns, in his book "Pfeil und Bogen, herstellung und gebrauch in der jungsteinzeit" (2001), states on page 14 that there are "etwa 2 Dutzend" (approx 24) finds of holmegård bows from Denmark. It's a good book, but sadly it's only in german.

And as said before, there are some variation to the design in the original artifacts. One of the most complete, looks more like a regular pyramid flatbow, than my overly conventionalized version.

[deerhunter97370]

Hey guys, I just got through reading the chapter in TBB2 about these bows. At the begining of the chapter they say there are many variations to the bows they are discusing, and if there is only one bow of this type maybe you are both correct. Joel

[Kviljo]

I just red the article.
http://www.fiarc.org/public/Forum/Data/jeval/2005102714414_Tillering%20the%20Holmegaard%20Bow-2.pdf

And I'm not impressed, to be quite honest. The guy should have done a little more research, and made more than 3 holmegårds before he decided to draw the first drawig in the article and state over and over again that it needs to have parallell thickness and width.
It is simply wrong, and it is sad that everything that gets written and published somehow usually gets quoted again and again.

If you're still not convinved, we're back to the question about how a regular board will bend?

Found these nice photos by the way:
http://www.archerymuseum.org/holm.htm

[adb]

Kviljo,
How will a regular board bend? Depends on how it is shaped. What do you mean by "regular?" I don't understand how this relates to Holmegaard tiller.
Thanks for the info on the Holmegaard artifacts, very interesting. I still think 20 is an exaggeration, however.
I'm sorry you disagree on the article written by Dennis. What exactly do you disagree with? I think it's well written, and based on first hand experience. Very logical, at least to me. I've made several bows, both self and backed, using this method, and they're excellent shooters. The advantages of the Holmegaard tiller are lost with elliptical tiller.

[Kviljo]

By regular board I mean a regular uniform thickness and width board. In principle exactly the same as the article would like to shape the bending portion of the holmegård
If it is made that way, the bending portion of the limbs will then get too much bend near the handle, and the bow will break there first. It will not have a circular tiller.

If you want a holmegård with 2" wide parallell inner limbs to be evenly stressed, the inner limbs need to have a taper in thickness. Not by much, but noticeable.
In the other hand, if you want a holmegård with inner limbs that are uniform in thickness, you need to give it a taper in width. That will be more noticable, quite like the drawing that Tim Baker posted on the other forum that I linked to.

[Dane]

This is an interesting conversation. And it will help me as I give another try at this design. Twice it has eluded me, and I have a very nice elm stave just waiting for me to give it another go.

My understanding is that this style bow is superb, and I love the very ancient European designs above many other styles of bow.

Ivar, beautiful work as always, very clean.

Dane

[adb]

kviljo,
I'm trying to post pics, but everytime i do, I get an error code saying the file is too large. Any suggesstions as to what I'm doing wrong?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[adb]

Hey!!! It worked!!

Kviljo,
The previous pic is of a Holmegaard I finished recently. It's 66" NTN, 50# @ 28". Hickory backed maple. The back has been stained dark brown. I'll try posting some more pics. Maybe I was just trying to send too many at once.

[adb]

OK, here goes another try. Some more pics of the same bow.

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[adb]

And here is one at full draw

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[DanaM]

adb pics have to be 200kb or less in size, nice looking bow.

[Kviljo]

Nice bow and pictures! Looks like a very nice handle too!

But I would have to say that it is bending too much near the handle, just as such a bow would do if its wide limbs had uniform thickness and width.
You can probably test this by seeing where it followed the string. My bet is that the outer part of the wide limbs show no set, while the inner parts should have taken at least some set.

For the wood to be evenly stressed on such a bow with parallell width, it actually needs to bend progressively more out from the handle, not progressively more towards the handle.
Try it, I'm sure you won't be disapointed speed-wise

[adb]

Kviljo,
Now before you say more, try this.... take a piece of paper, hold it up vetically to your computer screen, and cover up the outer non-bending portions of the limbs on the pic at full draw. Now what do you think of the tiller?

When tillering a Holmegaard, you have to ignore the outer limbs, and tiller the inner limbs only. If, that is, you want to end up with a Holmegaard tiller. The outer limbs act as levers, and should NOT bend... at all. Also, look at the string angle at full draw. Very much reduced, compared to a regularily tillered longbow.

Yes, the bow bends at the fades. No crysalling. String follow on this bow is less than 1". To me, this is Holmegaard tiller.

[adb]

Here are some more pics of the handle

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[OldBow]

Looking forward to a FULL DRAW picture of your bow.