Best method(s) flax roving backing

[UserNameTaken]

I'm about to put a flax roving backing on a longbow, and now that I have all of the materials in front of me this task seems a little daunting. I have a hairball and a bowl of glue. I've managed to straighten some of the fibers out with a comb, but I'm losing a certain amount due to hairballs forming. My plan is to cut the fibers into bundles of equal length and girth, and then glue them onto the bow in a staggered fashion. And, it's my understanding that it's important to keep the fibers as straight as possible?

Does anybody (who has actually done this before) have some tips to make this a little easier? There doesn't seem to be much information out there regarding flax roving backings--beyond what Tim Baker laid out in the TBB.

[UserNameTaken]

So, I went ahead and tried to apply the backing. But, it just turned into a big old mess. I tried to use Titebond III, which seems to be too thick to work with; The flax fibers get all twisted when you go to soak them in the glue. So, tomorrow I'm going to go find some hide glue and see if that works better.

[Thesquirrelslinger]

So, I went ahead and tried to apply the backing. But, it just turned into a big old mess. I tried to use Titebond III, which seems to be too thick to work with; The flax fibers get all twisted when you go to soak them in the glue. So, tomorrow I'm going to go find some hide glue and see if that works better.

Go to the store, buy unflavored gelatin. it is a strong, tough hide glue- It is more or less just purified hide glue.
Mix it as you would dry hide glue.
It works great with jute, i am not so sure with flax.
and Yea... whenever you comb out fiber, you are gonna get hairballs.
shorter fibers are better about this than longer ones.
as in, less hairballs. a pound of good quality gelatin costs around $20. It should be enough to back 2 short bows, or one longbow- you will probably have around 1/4th pound left over.
-Squirrel

[Josh B]

You can thin tb III with water to make it work a little better for you.  Or you can use hide glue.  But uh...... it doesn't require 3/4 of a pound to do it.   Thats just absurd.  You might use two dollars worth.  I would recommend the thinned out tb III.  Josh

[Thesquirrelslinger]

You can thin tb III with water to make it work a little better for you.  Or you can use hide glue.  But uh...... it doesn't require 3/4 of a pound to do it.   Thats just absurd.  You might use two dollars worth.  I would recommend the thinned out tb III.  Josh

Dude, if you saturate the fibers and lay 3 courses( I treat jute like sinew), it takes that much.

[Josh B]

You can thin tb III with water to make it work a little better for you.  Or you can use hide glue.  But uh...... it doesn't require 3/4 of a pound to do it.   Thats just absurd.  You might use two dollars worth.  I would recommend the thinned out tb III.  Josh

Dude, if you saturate the fibers and lay 3 courses( I treat jute like sinew), it takes that much.

Lol!  Whatever you say slinger.  I realize that you probably built bows for twenty years one summer, but you got alot to learn!  Josh

[Thesquirrelslinger]

You can thin tb III with water to make it work a little better for you.  Or you can use hide glue.  But uh...... it doesn't require 3/4 of a pound to do it.   Thats just absurd.  You might use two dollars worth.  I would recommend the thinned out tb III.  Josh

Dude, if you saturate the fibers and lay 3 courses( I treat jute like sinew), it takes that much.

Lol!  Whatever you say slinger.  I realize that you probably built bows for twenty years one summer, but you got alot to learn!  Josh

Dude, I just started backing bows with jute fiber last year.
that was the end of 2012. I am working towards backing all my new bows with it.
Also, I forgot to say.. My experiance is with glue-intensive, long, 2 inch wide board staves. I usually use MORE than 3/4 pound.
But i put 3 layers of jute on... well saturated with glue. Plus I size twice else it does not stick too well.
Plus i get about 1/2 pound on the floor;)
Better to have too much than too little.
-squirrel
I will take and upload pics of my jute backed staves.

[Josh B]

First of all, usernametaken, I apologize for temporarily hijacking your thread.  But this needs to be addressed.
Slinger, do you have any idea, how much glue a pound of gelatin would make?  It wouldn't fit in a crockpot.  Just to be clear, I don't like being a jerk, but your getting on my last nerve.  I don't hold it against you that you are young or inexperienced.  I love seeing folks take up the craft and I will do all I can to help.  What I have a big problem with is you and a few others throwing out advice with no first hand knowledge to back it up.  Most of the folks on here have been around the block and seen right off that your full of beans.  Your no danger to them.  The problem is, there are other folks just starting out that might think that you know what you are spewing.  Theories and citing what you've read are perfectly fine, but be sure to make it known that is all your posting.  If you keep at it the way you have been, you're gonna mess somebody up, maybe even get em hurt.  I can certainly appreciate you wanting to help, just be sure you are actually helping.  That's all I ask.  Josh

[UserNameTaken]

Squirrel, thanks, I cut my 8" bundles in half and it looks like that will make a big difference.

Josh, thank you also. I was wondering if I could maybe thin out the Titebond, but it didn't mention any such thing on the bottle. I'll probably just do that since I already have the TBIII. Plus, I'm in WA, so waterproof is a good thing.

[Thesquirrelslinger]

Squirrel, thanks, I cut my 8" bundles in half and it looks like that will make a big difference.

Josh, thank you also. I was wondering if I could maybe thin out the Titebond, but it didn't mention any such thing on the bottle. I'll probably just do that since I already have the TBIII. Plus, I'm in WA, so waterproof is a good thing.

Go with the TB3. Hide glue.....

[UserNameTaken]

Next question: Now that the flax is drying, some bare spots are appearing on the edges; They probably won't affect the performance, but I'd like to fix them if I can. Would it be a bad idea to sand the titebondIII (just on the bare spots) and add a little flax fiber to those areas? I would rather not sand it at all, but It's my understanding that titebond doesn't like to stick to titebond.

The backing went on alright; looks pretty good. Appearance wise, it looks like bamboo and sinew had a baby--named it flax. I'll try to get some pictures up. It's pretty interesting.

[Josh B]

You can sand it and get better adhesion.  Just be careful that you don't sand through the fibers that you already laid.  Josh

[randman]

Doc, I think you are confusing TheSquirrelSlinger with SquirrelSlayer (it's happened before on this forum - the names are so similar). Squirrelslinger is from good ol Kentucky and that other squirrelguy (the kid) is in the UK somewhere.

I guess you didn't change your handle enough to end the confusion Squirrelslinger.

[Josh B]

No sir.  No confusion here.  I know they are different people.  If I thought it was the other squirrel, I wouldn't have bothered trying to straighten him out.  Not again anyway.  Josh

[Marc St Louis]

So, I went ahead and tried to apply the backing. But, it just turned into a big old mess. I tried to use Titebond III, which seems to be too thick to work with; The flax fibers get all twisted when you go to soak them in the glue. So, tomorrow I'm going to go find some hide glue and see if that works better.

Go to the store, buy unflavored gelatin. it is a strong, tough hide glue- It is more or less just purified hide glue.
Mix it as you would dry hide glue.
It works great with jute, i am not so sure with flax.
and Yea... whenever you comb out fiber, you are gonna get hairballs.
shorter fibers are better about this than longer ones.
as in, less hairballs. a pound of good quality gelatin costs around $20. It should be enough to back 2 short bows, or one longbow- you will probably have around 1/4th pound left over.
-Squirrel

I'm assuming here that you mean 3/4# of prepared hide glue.  It's still too much but better to have too much than too little.