Bow #2 - Red Oak Pyramid

[webrx]

OK, working on bow number 2, got it tillered to a decent shape, but I fear it is stacking as I can only draw it to 25".

shot a dozen arrows with it and it is strong and quiet, but, I can't get it to my full draw, stacking I believe, but I am new at this.  I am thinking I can shoot it a bit and see if it eases up, or, narrow the width of the limbs just outside the handle to get some more bend in the upper part of the limbs.  My fear is the handle will pop if I take too much off.  should I take off width near the handle or try to thin the belly a bit 6-8 inches on each side of the handle?

Dimensions:
Pyramid design, 2" at the fades to 1/2 inch at the nocks, 58 nock to nock, 4 inch handle with 2 inch fades, board measures about 1/2 in thick, a little more near the handle, a little less near the tips (about a 1/16 variance) not sure what pull weight is yet, but it feels strong, 50+ at 25" draws nicely until I get near 25 or so than it stacks up pretty good, I can't pull it much past 25" this is the tiller at 20" in the picture.

Open to any advice on how to proceed please?



Thanks

Dave

[ionicmuffin]

well id say that the mid limbs are bending too much, fades could bend more and tips could too. but dont touch the mid limbs

[ionicmuffin]

you can try tillering out the hinges or you could try flipping the tips and hope to reduce the string angle. string angle has a lot to do with stacking. you could do both of course.

[BOWMAN53]

With pyramid bows, most of the bend should come from the fades sense they are the widest point and can take more sTress. Long story short, get the inner limbs bending alot more. Dont even touch the the mid to outer limb and then you should be done.

[bubby]

at 58" it's about right for a 25" draw, you lose 8" fades and grip that gives you 50" and divide by 2 ya get 25", most guys figure half the working limb plus 10%, how much draw are you looking for.
more bend inner limb like bowman said and don't flip the tips

[DarkSoul]

58" tip to tip? Why so short? I really can't wrap my head around it; why do beginners regularly start out with such a short board? It's about a foot short for what I would recommend a beginner. With the current length, you should definitely stop at 25" draw length, but still need to improve the tiller. Considering that picture is at 20" of draw, I can only imagine what the tiller looks like at 25". Yes, you are experiencing stack. You need to scrape both inner limbs to get more wood bending, to relieve the stress on the entire bow. It will mean a more durable bow, and probably also less stacking, even at the maximum draw length of 25". Don't pay attention to the draw weight you'll finish with. Focus on a good tiller at 25".

Your next bow should be at least 68" for your desired 28" draw length, if you use a red oak board again. Then you can also pay more attention to the draw weight to make sure you don't come in underweight.

[mikekeswick]

+1 Darksoul
Your bow is too short for what you are asking from it.
If for some reason you only had a 58 inch board and you wanted a 28 inch draw bow then you could have made a bend in the handle bow. With no 'riser' and fades and the whole bow working you could just get a 28 inch draw.
Use this bow as a tillering lesson. Then start on another bow of the same design but 68 inch length.
With a pyramid bow the tiller should be an arc of a circle.
Do a search for 'tiller gizmo' and make one! It will be the most useful 5 mins you ever spend!

[webrx]

Thanks guys.

I was actually looking to get 30-35#s at 23 when I started this bow, it was supposed to be for my son.  My first bow was 72" for me, and ended up with 35-37 at my draw of 27", I was told on that one that I did not get enough bend in the mid to tips, so was focusing on improving that - I think I did, but, did not get enough at the fades.

I will work on the fade section, should I avoid getting too close to the handle to prevent having it pop off liek work from an inch or two out from the handle to get the upper limbs bending, or work right up to the fades?

Also, am I reading correctly that to achieve a 28" draw you need to have a minimum of a 28" limb?  Sorry, I didn't catch that in all the reading I have been doing, probably a basic that I somehow missed.


Thanks

Dave

[bubby]

with a good maple or hickory board you can geta 29" draw @ 64" ntn, but just starting out a little cushion don't hurt 68" ttt, 66" ntn and you will get a nice shooting well behaved bow

[bushboy]

2xdraw lenght ,plus 6",like bubby pointed out.29 plus 29 plus 6 equals 64.if transitioned properly ,should be able to get your inners moving a lot more without the handle popping off. Providing your glue line holds up.

[gpw]

 The bow is stacking because the string angle at the tips (see photo ^ ) are 90degrees to the limb tips .... and have nowhere else to go ...

[webrx]

ok, worked the inners a bit got rid of the stacking, and got the bow to full draw, 27" at 45#.



Thanks for the help

also, built my first bow string out of real string material, and working on the center serving now.  One more first, I did my first handle on a bow, roughed it out with a coping saw and files and then sanded it all down, with an arrow rest no less




d

[ionicmuffin]

VERY nice! you REALLY improved the tiller! I can tell your going to be turning them out 

[webrx]

Thanks 2 for 2 so far, but this one only has 30 or so arrows through it

I feel much better about the tiller on this one now, and it pulls much nicer, the boy can pull it to his 23" just barely, so I am gonna keep working him on the 22# bow for a little while and build up those back and shoulder muscles before he transitions to this one. 

I have an 8 foot 3/4" x 5.5" out in the garage, may have to fire up the table saw and build him one with 1.5" fades that is a little less pull.  I really would like to put one together for him that is around 30 lbs, a step up from his current bow, but not too much of a step. 

As stated above this one was supposed to be for him, so I figured a 60" board would be enough (23" draw) but it started as a 2.5 inch wide fade and finished at a little under 2" to get it bending at the upper limbs and weight where it is now (45# at my 27" draw).

Thanks again for the advice.

Dave

[BOWMAN53]

Sweet, i like the handle and arrow shelf.