Black Locust question

[IsaacW]

I know it has been mentioned multiple times here that Black Locust is best brought down to hardwood.  I have been looking but can not find anything about what would happen IF you left sapwood.  I know a guys was experimenting with this a year ago (also working it green) but I have not heard from or of anyone using the sapwood and am curious.

ANYWAY... anyone have experience they can relate on using sapwood on B.L.??

Thanks.

Isaac

[Pat B]

Isaac, if you properly handle the wood after harvest yes you can use some sapwood on a locust bow. The closer the sapwood is to the heartwood the stronger it will be so using the last or last 2 sapwood rings above the heartwood should be fine.

[George Tsoukalas]

I've used sapwood for back but only when I had to (not enough heartwood) and at that I get as close to the heartwood as possible making the sapwood stronger. Wood like BL and osage have sapwood and heartwood and are mostly heartwood. As the tree ages the   sapwood converts to heartwood. Thus the the sapwood ring immediately above the heartwood is the strongest because it is poised to make the conversion to heartwood.

I've never left sapwood on the back of BL or osage because it is "pretty" and makes the wood look like yew.

Jawge

[IsaacW]

Thanks guys.  I have a few staves I pulled when I was cutting BL for fence posts 3 years ago.  They have been split and seasoning in the gargage rafters and I  am wanting to build a bow from one this summer.  Anyway, I have built from mainly "white woods" in the past and would prefer to build in that fashion as it is just easier and saves a lot of work and time.  I was unsure if this would work or not on BL.  I will have to check and see how much is heart vs. sap and make some decisions.

IW

[blackhawk]

Yes it can be done with the right circumstances...but I've seen more fail then succeed....and I always chase a heartwood ring because I feel its stronger and better in doing so IMO.

[Pat B]

Its not that much more work to chase a heartwood ring than leaving a few sapwood rings. You still have to chase a ring and being extra careful to do a perfect job with the whitewood. If you are looking for the quicker, easier way selfbows might not be your bag. 

[Joec123able]

I don't see why the sap wood wouldn't work but you won't know you just get out an try it !

[Thesquirrelslinger]

Well, that sapwood is just not as strong as heartwood.
one irony- Osage heartwood is probably one of the best bow woods in the world, but the sapwood is one of the worst.
Same with Yew, but the sapwood is useful... as a (carppy) backing.
-Squirrel.
BL is a good wood. I use sooo much of it. I use mostly 4-6 inch diam logs... the sapwood is very thin, the rings in general are thin, and the stuff is very strong.
No big stuff near my house
Use a big tool(hatchet is great) to split off the sapwood, and make arrows from it. make a bow from heartwood and arrows from heartwood chunks left over.
It is pretty cool if you make a bow and arrows from the same tree, with the bark making a quiver.
BL is very strong stuff, but it cannot take much compression, be careful.
Sapwood is not nearly as tough. However, it makes good arrows.
Sorry for ramblin!

[sleek]

I havent read all the posts here but i will ad my 2 cents. I have made bows of all sapwood, and they love heat treat when you do that. Havent broke the two I made of all sap yet. I have also made a few ( maybe 3 ) with sapwood backs with no troubles. I will add they were a touch wide and the bellies were heat treated.

[mikekeswick]

I havent read all the posts here but i will ad my 2 cents. I have made bows of all sapwood, and they love heat treat when you do that. Havent broke the two I made of all sap yet. I have also made a few ( maybe 3 ) with sapwood backs with no troubles. I will add they were a touch wide and the bellies were heat treated.

You've made a bow entirely from b.locust sapwood.....? Really!

To the op forget about using sapwood there is really no point. B'locust heartwood is fantastic stuff.

[sleek]

Ummm yeah, why so amazing? I can take pics of the bow if you want...The other is in Texas, I showed a friend of my wifes how to make a bow and a black locust sapling was all we had. So, we took it to the bandsaw, marked off the handle and cut the bow in half to the fades and ran the cut off the belly to make the fades. I then took each limbs worth of scrap, sliced in a scrap bit of osage for the handle, and made a 30 lb target bow. I think hers came out to 35 lbs at 25 inches of draw? I reckon i should have mentioned the low weight.

I will add here, I reserve the right to be incorrect on tree ID, but here in oklahoma, there are only 3 trees I know of that have thorns, osage, honey locust, and black locust. I believe this to be the species black locust.

[sleek]

Doing a search on locust brought this pic.... WOW is all I can say, as I cringe thinking these poor sticks are to be fence posts...
http://ablacklocustconnection.com/fence.htm

I can see it now... Who stole my fence rails? What kinda guy takes a fence rail off a fence? HEHEHE.... I would... think about it...

[IsaacW]

. If you are looking for the quicker, easier way selfbows might not be your bag. 

DANG!!!


Seriously though... I just like the fact that taking of bark and chasing NO rings is nice and easy.   I have done it on a 1/2 doz. bows, but these were all whitewoods (Hickory, ash, cherry) that allow this.  We don't have Osage Orange around here and I have never messed with it or Locust (although we have a lot of that.  I just happen to have a log of locust that is starting to look good and seasoned... figured it is time for something new.

As for hardwork and trying to do things easier... well... it is a nice idea but I rarely end up going that route.  It seems most things I do are the hard way. 

[IsaacW]

Doing a search on locust brought this pic.... WOW is all I can say, as I cringe thinking these poor sticks are to be fence posts...
http://ablacklocustconnection.com/fence.htm

I can see it now... Who stole my fence rails? What kinda guy takes a fence rail off a fence? HEHEHE.... I would... think about it...

Cool... growing up, we  used a lot of locust for fencing as it is pretty resistant to rot.  I have since used it to build my chicken coop and to do some arbors in the garden.  I have an uncle that is in construction near Madison, WI and had a lady that wanted a wood deck that was "green"... no green treated and she didn't like cedar.  He had some B.L. milled up and built it from that.  Sounds like a lot of work    BUT... wow, a beauty of a deck.

[George Tsoukalas]

I have made bows with sapwood backs and I think all sapwood too. BUT only when I had to. When there wasn't enough sapwood. But then I already said. The best scenario is take off the sapwood, however. Jawge