Author Topic: I hate it when!!!  (Read 10598 times)

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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2013, 01:23:10 pm »
I still love my shiney bows, my brightly painted arrows and my plastic nocks. Even more now.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline PrimitiveTim

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2013, 01:33:00 pm »
I think a lot of it depends on the reason that you came to primitive archery.  The reason for was I was so intruiged that it was possible to make something so powerful and lethal completely out of natural materials that I can harvest from my yard for FREE!  The free part is what really got me.  Also, I was thinking about when/if modern society collapses what kind of materials will I have at hand to make something I could hunt with in the long run.  Obviously whether your bows are shiny or not it's the same principle but that stuff costs money and a trip to the store.  I don't like spending money or going to the store.  I'm probably not going to shine any of my bows up in the future but I do think they look pretty.  What a great concept.  Work/time=free stuff. lol
Florida to Kwajalein to Turkey and back in Florida again.  Good to be home but man was that an adventure!

Offline Slackbunny

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2013, 02:03:31 pm »
I'm not even sure that the assumption all wood exchanges moister is actually correct. Take the Mary Rose bows found underwater. I believe some have even been shot! Also finishing oil from liberon makes this claim "A most dramatic demonstration of the qualities of this finish was given by Jan Sanders who, having turned a small oak bowl, applied three coats of finishing oil, allowed it to dry and then poured a quantity of blue water based wood dye into the bowl. After gently swilling it around, Jan poured the dye out and wiped the bowl dry. Needless to say no trace of the dye could be detected on the inside of the bowl. This oil will give good resistance against water, alcohol and food acid marks and will give a matt to satin finish dependent upon the number of coats. A gloss can be achieved by applying a paste wax. Also approved safe for toys. Coverage: 1litre to 8 - 12mē. Drying: approximately 5 hours."
My feeling is that modern finishes DO seal a bow almost completely, if applied correctly. And I for one like this, if my canoe capsizes I want to know that my bow will be fine after a little dunk. Some of the new floor finishes are even more bomb proof!

There is one very big problem with that test you described. It deals with liquid water, not water vapour. Liquids can not diffuse through solids, but vapors can, regardless of how well sealed the solid may be.

If you have a perfectly sealed tank of propane (no leaks), and you leave it for long enough, that propane will diffuse right through the steel walls of the container. All there needs to be is a concentration gradient, so as long as the concentration of propane outside is lower than the concentration of propane inside, the gaseous propane will diffuse through.

The same thing happens with bows, and water vapour. It takes time, but it does happen, and there is no finish that you can put on a bow that will seal it nearly as well as a propane tank so it happens much more rapidly in bows.

Moisture will move in and out of a bow regardless of how well it is sealed. If the bow is dryer than the air, moisture will diffuse in, if it is wetter than the air, moisture will diffuse out. You can slow it down, but you can't stop it.

Summary: You can stop liquid water from soaking in, but not water vapor from diffusing in.

Knowing that, I can't agree that modern finishes cause bows to dry out. They might let in moisture slower than primitive finishes, but they would also release it slower. Both kinds of finish will maintain some sort of equilibrium with their environment.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 02:07:10 pm by Slackbunny »

Offline Prarie Bowyer

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2013, 02:12:06 pm »
The concept of Laquer is thousands of years old. 

The active ingredient in Shelac is bug poop, casings.

Various oils are widely available in nature. 

Woods will breath through a mild amount of finish.  Dipped in an epoxy type coating no. 

You can also get that shine from coathing in wax and polishing the wax.... also naturaly available.

Offline rossfactor

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2013, 04:14:36 pm »
If you use "natural" finishes do you make them yourselves? That would be the trick I think.  Render some bearfat, raid a beehive and gather the wax, or make your own lemon oil.  BTW it takes about 1500 lemons to make a pound worth of lemon oil and you need one hell of a press to get it out.  Maybe not very primitive, probably about as primitive as shellac or Tung oil.  I can get a a pretty shiny finish from Tung oil (made from the nut of the Tung tree), but I've never tried to get the oil out of a Tung nut.

If we're gonna be primitive about what we use, than perhaps we should be primitve about making it.

Gabe

Humboldt County CA.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2013, 04:45:42 pm »
I my younger days, I'd make a b ow or 2 and then seal it with grease. Lightly heat that grease in with a hair dryer and you nave a very good finish. The arrows I hunt with are tipped with trades wrapped with sinew as are the nocks. The arrow is sealed with deer grease. It makes an excellent moisture retardant. Keeps the rain water out. The sinew still gets wet unless I coat with pitch. As I've aged I've gone more and more to the canned finishes. I know it is unnatural as are my B 50's but.... We draw our own lines in the sand. :)Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline mwosborn

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2013, 09:37:08 pm »
We draw our own lines in the sand. :)Jawge

Well said George!

"Primitive" is a relative term.  We are all "primtive" compared to future generations 500 years from now.  We are all "modern" compared to past generations of 500 years ago.  We just choose to make bows that are similar to the bows made in our past.  Have fun with it and draw your own line in the sand.
Enjoy the hunt!  Mitch

Offline okiecountryboy

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2013, 10:33:11 am »
Dang Indian Guy,
You sure know how to get-em goin... ;D ;D ;D ;D
God, honor, country, bows, and guns.

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2013, 11:02:52 am »
Had this discussion so many times over the years.  As it relates to the Plains Indian material culture, so much of what they were using was, by the mid 1800's or so, acquired through trade with "European" traders.  This includes their paints.  One can only ride the "primitive" high horse so far. 
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Pappy

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2013, 11:10:01 am »
Man this is still going on. :o Glad that was just your opinion IndianGuy,cause we all know how opinions are,everyone has one. Like Jawges said we all draw our on lines and I have no problem where anyones lines are as long as they don't try and draw mine, ;) I like shinny bow or dull bow finished with TruOil or bear fat,I like them all.  :) Thanks for keeping it civil. :)
   Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline Onebowonder

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Re: I hate it when!!!
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2013, 12:10:38 pm »
I just wish I could get everybody else to do it right, ...like me.   >:D >:D >:D

OneBow