Author Topic: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts  (Read 10353 times)

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Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« on: May 13, 2013, 06:52:36 pm »
Hello everyone,
Well I thought I would make an appearance and share a few things. My fellow CWBS members and myself have been quite busy working on making bows, fletching and forging as the Warbow season is reaching it's prime here in Canada. I just finished making a Youtube video featuring one of my Ironwood English Warbows which I am quite happy with performance wise.  (Below)
Here are some photos of the Bow:

It's 110lbs at 32" (well between 108-113lbs) from a hop-hornbeam stave that has been seasoned for nearly two years now.
The bow measures 78" nock to nock, it has self nocks. For two reasons I might add, the first in primary reason being a lack of horn at the moment  :laugh: The other being that With such a strong woods like Ironwood it does not need the reinforcement of horn and so being un-practical, I find it unrealistic to assume that mean wood bows in the HYW period would have all had horn nocks.
But anyways Ironwood, being true to it's name is a very dense wood and likes a lot of seasoning, check out the results at the end of the video!
(The photos were taken before any coats and polishing were done)






 ;) Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBtye0lOQok&feature=share&list=UU1u9Zhqbn33qUOXuxurt7zQ





And here's a few photos of recent arrow batches I have laying around. An assortment of EWBS Liverys, Standards, 1/4lbers, EWBS-NZ Sheafs, Bearings, DWS Crecys and a few Hastings.
Enjoy!  ;D






























Cheers,
-Jake

Offline adb

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 08:06:58 pm »
Good to see you back here, Jake! Nice HHB warbow. Excellent tiller. Your arrows look fantastic as well. Looks like you're still struggling to get that 132# Poletti all the way back! That's a beast. 100# is my max.

It's good to see some of those arrow heads with mud on them! Cameroo and I were out about 2 weeks ago for our first warbow shoot of the year. Planning to go again this Friday. I'll try post some pics. Carry on! You should think about coming out west... we'd love to have you for a visit!

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 09:00:01 pm »
Hi there adb, many thanks my friend! Really glad you enjoy 'em!
heh heh heh yes indeed that big yew bow is a wee bit of a pig! My draw with it begins to creep back from 32 to 31 to 30 over time! :laugh: But the spring is new so long as I am well on top of it by the shoot in July I will be well happy!
Ah yes forgot to mention, all the heads are hand forged by either Milos Lasky or by the CWBS's own Scott Spears. Couldn't agree more mate, got to give 'em some dirt in the wound eh!
Would love to see some photos adb, I will be sure to check back eh! All the best, wishing you gents some fine weather out west!
I would love to visit mate and would be sure to let you know if I'm in the area! Likewise if you find yourself in Ontario eh! The eastern CWBS boys would be keen to meet up, hopefully we will see you at a shoot in the future!
Take care eh and let fly!
-Jake

Offline WillS

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 09:06:10 pm »
Stunning bows and shafts! Thanks for sharing!  How much difference do the variations in fletching shape make?  I've only ever used the triangle with natural trailing edge with heavy bows, as I just prefer the shape, but looking at that selection its tempting me to try a few others! Do you just shape them based on what you fancy at the time, or are the different profiles better suited to different shafts? Round edge for livery, trailing edge for standard etc etc?

Offline AH

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 09:22:15 pm »
Great Looking Bow Jake!  ;D
I need to try messing with ironwood.
By the way, I'm that one who sent you that youtube message asking for the yew warbow dimensions, did you ever measure them or send a message back? I'm not pressing you or anything, just wondering  :D

Man those arrows look sharp!

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 09:42:54 pm »
Hello there Will! Thanks very much!
As for fletching, there is a lot of differing opinions and speculation about fletching types, also about stability vs. distance between heavy, light, bob-tailed, barralled arrows etc.
Ideally I prefer a rounded triangular shape as I find it ideal in straight flight and superb distance while the trailing edge of a traditional medieval arrow looks nice I think, but it is a bit more cumbersome between the fingers, restricting ( a miniscule  amount) how far back on the shaft the feather can be seated. A small matter true, but if we are speaking practically for the best performance of an arrow all these tiny factors begin to become ever more relevant. Therefor I would choose the rounded triangular shape if my life depended on it and if I had the choice!
However, the varying feathers are due to Society arrow spec regulations. For example; an EWBS 1/4lber requires a trailing edge as nature intended, where as the EWBS livery must be triangular. An EWBS-NZ Sheaf arrow also requires a trailing edge as nature intended where as the EWBS-NZ bearing allows a rounded slope etc.
The reasoning for the strict arrow specs is to, for one, give an equal playing field for every archer internationally allowing them to see and compare their progress with everyone else with as much emphasis on the archer's skill instead of his equipment as possible.
But even more so they come from what physical evidence we have left from the period. Detailed analysis of arrows has been done by many individuals, which makes up for much of the information available to us today, the rest can be obtained from manuscript images.

Take a look at a few of these I have on my desktop here:






Now keep in mind these are just the few I have at the minute but take a good look at the fletchings and the shafts and the heads. Many will be glorified and a significant amount of artistic license must be acknowledged, but the first image in particular I quite love of a fletcher's workshop holding what looks like an exact replica of our modern livery arrow only with a bulbous nock commonly used before inserts.
Now this I think more than anything is what I would recommend basing your arrows off of. But I could go on for a whole threads worth on such things. In the end, be as true to the history as you can, and the only way to do that is through the limited knowledge we have to go by.
Hope this helps!  ;)
-Jake


Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 09:45:52 pm »
Great Looking Bow Jake!  ;D
I need to try messing with ironwood.
By the way, I'm that one who sent you that youtube message asking for the yew warbow dimensions, did you ever measure them or send a message back? I'm not pressing you or anything, just wondering  :D

Man those arrows look sharp!
Ah hello there Livefortheoutdoors!! Very sorry mate, I do recall your inbox and I must have forgotten to get back to you, my sincere apologies! I will send them along ASAP!
As for the compliments, many thanks! I am very glad you enjoy 'em they were very fun to make, and even more so to shoot!
-Jake

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 09:52:16 pm »
As a follow up response on the arrows WillS, if you are interested, all the official arrow specs can be seen on the Canadian Warbow Society website!  ;)
-Jake

Offline WillS

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 10:09:39 pm »
Couldn't ask for a better reply mate, thanks! Really appreciate the time you put into that!

I've got a copy of the EWBS specs already but wasn't sure how strict each arrow category had to be.  I'm not a member yet, as I've not quite completed my goal of making a true Mary Rose yew warbow at the weight I want (120#) but I'm not far off!

I'll have to crack on with making up a batch of each type then!

Offline AH

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 10:48:01 pm »
Great Looking Bow Jake!  ;D
I need to try messing with ironwood.
By the way, I'm that one who sent you that youtube message asking for the yew warbow dimensions, did you ever measure them or send a message back? I'm not pressing you or anything, just wondering  :D

Man those arrows look sharp!
Ah hello there Livefortheoutdoors!! Very sorry mate, I do recall your inbox and I must have forgotten to get back to you, my sincere apologies! I will send them along ASAP!
As for the compliments, many thanks! I am very glad you enjoy 'em they were very fun to make, and even more so to shoot!

-Jake

Glad to hear it. Thanks  ;)
By the way, what wood do you make those quarter pounder shafts out of? I've experimented with pine, poplar, oak, hickory, and a few other woods but I don't really get the weight.

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 11:52:14 pm »
Couldn't ask for a better reply mate, thanks! Really appreciate the time you put into that!

I've got a copy of the EWBS specs already but wasn't sure how strict each arrow category had to be.  I'm not a member yet, as I've not quite completed my goal of making a true Mary Rose yew warbow at the weight I want (120#) but I'm not far off!

I'll have to crack on with making up a batch of each type then!

Glad to hear it WillS, the short solution is just consider them very strict. Again the reason is sound, being that everyone is shooting the same arrows in order to gage their progress. Really all you need is the arrows that best fly from your bow, some bows shoot heavy arrows better, others light. Also of course if it's 100lbs it's not going to shoot a 1/4lber or a sheaf that brilliantly (This is not related to 'spine'). It is always good I think to go with Standards and Livery's as they are the most commonly used for competition and will mean more, to more people.
Best of luck!
-Jake

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 12:07:10 am »

[/quote]

Glad to hear it. Thanks  ;)
By the way, what wood do you make those quarter pounder shafts out of? I've experimented with pine, poplar, oak, hickory, and a few other woods but I don't really get the weight.
[/quote]

As for Quarter Pounders, Pine and poplar just wont do, far to light, one would have to have a massive chunk of steel to make the weight. I use ash at times but this even requires a very heavy plate cutter. I use red oak personally, it is heavy and will do the job and at times more so. I have had examples come out at over 4.5 ounces!
I would recommend making up some NZ sheafs, I personally think that they are the best representative we have for a standard heavy military battle shaft. 1/4lbers are quite a bit extreme.
-Jake

Offline robby

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2013, 11:44:40 am »
Great stuff Jake, all of it!!!!!
Robby

Offline llkinak

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 01:02:21 pm »
Hi, Jake
Are you being affected by this late cold weather in Canada as we are in Alaska?  It has delayed shooting a bit up here, especially in the mornings.
The arrows look very nice. 
Lance.

Offline Agincourtwarbow

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Re: Of English Warbows and Battle Shafts
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 01:17:23 pm »
Hi, Jake
Are you being affected by this late cold weather in Canada as we are in Alaska?  It has delayed shooting a bit up here, especially in the mornings.
The arrows look very nice. 
Lance.

Hello there Lance!
My sympathies mate, we have had the opposite, it is just starting to cool back down to 10 here, but it has been around 30 above (C) for the last 2 weeks or so! All over the place mate, we have had 70-80 degree temperature changes numerous times this year. What a strange one eh!
Wishing ya good weather and good results Lance!
Cheers,
-Jake

Great stuff Jake, all of it!!!!!
Robby

Thanks Robby! Glad you enjoy 'em!  ;)