Need some help with tillering

[Dan K]

Hi folks,
I couldn't find my other post and since I'm still moving along with my first oak bow I just started a new one.  After laying it out, meeting some locals, who have been most helpful and patient I may add, heat treating over an open fire, building a tillering tree (copied someones off this site -thank you for sharing) and tillering to 50 lbs @ 28" I am once again in need of advice.  Below are some pics to show heat treating, static and full draw.  Your input on both heat treating and the tiller will be most appreciated.  Any other comments or questions are welcome too.  Still struggling to get pics uploaded so if this doesn't work I'll try again!


Here we are making and baking!


Nice golden brown.  Not sure if it's done or not cause we've never heat treated before.  It was really hard when it cooled.


Static

[adb]

Your tips are MASSIVE! You've also picked a very challenging stave for a first bow. Your left limb is bending not bad, but the right limb is going to be difficult to get bending evenly with that amount of dips and wobbles. Youm have natural deflex in the left limb and natural reflex in the right limb, making your tiller very uneven. Also, forget about the heat treating for a while. Getting a few bows under your belt first is more important. Do you have access to any straighter staves?

[Dan K]

TIps are just roughed out for now.  I haven't started on those yet.  I wanted to get through the tiller first then straighten up the tips.  The unevenness in the two limbs is what's giving me the challenge.  I'm in Oregon so there's wood everywhere.  I want to finish this one though.  Does the left and right limbs need to bend the same distance or just evenly?

[Bryce]

Dan if you want you can come over to the house tomorrow and well tackle this thing! Your very close! That right limb needs to loosen up.

[steve b.]

Good pics, Dan.  You're doing OK.    I wouldn't pull any further with that loose string.  You can go from floor tiller to some low brace.  Its more accurate pic of your true tiller.  Those flats will bend but you have to take them slowly.  The deflexed areas too, but they are deceiving in that they appear to be bending. 
I like the tips to ultimately move the same distance, regardless of limb lengths, and even curving limbs.  Others want more symetry.

[adb]

The limbs need to bend the same distance, and evenly.

[Weylin]

Hey, Dan. Looking pretty good. I agree with much of what's been said. Here's what I see... The distance traveled is what's important. Right now it appears that your left limb is moving about 1 " further than your right limb. So you do need to take a little more off of your right limb but dont go crazy because your right limb has reflex that your left limb doesnt AND it appears to be your bottom limb which is shorter so it will look stiffer. You don't want them to appear perfectly even. If they did then your right limb would be under considerably more strain given it's reflex and shorter length. Just keep that in mind as you go. I agree with Steve that it's past time to get that thing braced. It's a good time to get your tips down to near final dimensions so that your string will fit over it comfortably. in regards to the dips, don't let them stress you out. Make sure that you can feel a very consistent taper with your fingers and if you're doubting yourself use the trick with the ruler lines and the straight edge that I told you about to check the consistency of the bend. You can also squint your eyes a bit when you are looking at it on the tree. That will help you ignore the little dips and see the overall bend for what it really is. If you do all of those things then it will turn out fine. Getting it braced should be the next step before you do any more scraping or cranking. Having the bow braced will give us a much truer picture of the bows actual tiller because the angle is so different. Do you have a string made for your bow yet? If not we should whip one up for you this weekend. Gimme a call if you have any questions.

[Dan K]

Steve and adb, thanks for your input!  Bryce, tomorrow being Valentines day, It'll be hard to get away from the wife long enough to get anything done.  Something tells me it just isn't a good idea.  I could take Friday off if that works?  Saturday we're all going shooting in Yamhill.

[Bryce]

Steve and adb, thanks for your input!  Bryce, tomorrow being Valentines day, It'll be hard to get away from the wife long enough to get anything done.  Something tells me it just isn't a good idea.  I could take Friday off if that works?  Saturday we're all going shooting in Yamhill.

OH CRAP! I FORGOT!

[Dan K]

Thanks Weylin!

[Dan K]

OK.  The final chapter to my first bow.  I finished the tips and worked the bottom limb that was kind of rigid.  I put it back in the tree and was gently flexing and watching the bends. Taking it a few inches at a time, when I got to (what I thought) was full draw for the second or third time, BANG!  Everything was looking pretty good. I was watching what appeared to be a flat spot in the lower limb when the upper limb snapped.  I guess I can move on now that the dust has cleared and I'm through screaming words my kids have never heard!  After this experience, I have a question, how do you know when you've reached the max draw and you shouldn't go any further!  Every piece of wood will break at some point so how do you know when to stop or if you still have more potential?

[Weylin]

Crap!    My condolences. I thought you were good to go on that one. And I'm surprised to see that it had a tension failure as opposed to hinging or taking set. I wonder if it was still too dry from the heat treating or something. If it makes you feel any better your tip overlay looks top shelf... Well, looks like we need to get another stave in your hands for round 2.

[Bryce]

You broke Oregon white!!!!??
I've never heard of such a thing. I think it was sabotaged ^
Probably by the same person that did those overlays 


Looks like there's a good lookin yew stave back there jump on that!

[Dan K]

Thanks for the boosters!  I needed that.  I was happy with the overlays.  Happy with the whole bow.  Learned what to do but not sure what not to do.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
I was looking at the yew Pinecone.  Sounds like a plan!  I think I'll make one of those my first!

[adb]

For me, this is part of the appeal. This is natural material we're working with, and the challenge is there. Making cookie-cutter FG bows is not the same. If I knew the limits of all wood I'd be rich and famous! You're going to break bows on this journey, and you're more likely to do it now in the early stages. The initial learning curve is steep! Grab another piece of wood, and try again!