The difference between drying wood and seasoning it.

[blackhawk]

My head hurts....I'm taking my popcorn and walking out on this flick    ...and I'm gonna take it down into the shop and just make a bow to unwind...With some 17 year old cut osage

[Bryce]

went out and bounced some yew staves this morning, there is a SLIGHT difference in tone, between similar size staves (and i got good ears....musician)

the, 6 month staves did have a dull thud, while the staves that have set for a year are higher and almost have a ring to it. im digging this method. "singing yew"

i dont have any "Seasoned" staves to test, maybe you could send me one  and ill let you know what it sounds like 

[Roy]

I wanna know where that trouble maker Sleek is, I hain't seen him post since the second page.. He must a run off and got skeered..

[toomanyknots]

went out and bounced some yew staves this morning, there is a SLIGHT difference in tone, between similar size staves (and i got good ears....musician)

the, 6 month staves did have a dull thud, while the staves that have set for a year are higher and almost have a ring to it. im digging this method. "singing yew"

i dont have any "Seasoned" staves to test, maybe you could send me one  and ill let you know what it sounds like 

If you play guitar, try making a guitar saddle out of recently dried osage, and than one out of old brown osage. There is a big difference. The recently dried sounds horrible most of the time and really doesn't work in my experience,  usually it almost mutes the guitar. Where sometimes the old brown harder osage can give a sweet ringing tone to it, and give the guitar a nice earthy vibe. (Although it is still wood, and neither usually sound any better than a cheapo plastic saddle you get off cheap guitars.)

[ionicmuffin]

If you want to look at the structure of the wood think of it this way. when you dry the wood you are reducing the MC of the cells. but the cells can still have a rather soft structure. by aging(whatever it is about aging) the structure becomes rigid. Its like making mud bricks. fresh mud bricks are less likely to stand as well baked and aged bricks. but too old and you get brittle and crumbly bricks. as bryce was saying, the ring was higher pitched, less of the energy was used in cells that are weak making vibrations that are low. The high pitch is from the rigidity of the wood. the cells have become strong, they transfer energy more efficiently, less becomes lost to other things. and since what a bow is is just stored energy in each limb, it stands to reason that the wood that has better energy transfer will make a better bow given that all the dimensions are the same and that everything is perfect except the age of the wood.

[Bryce]

went out and bounced some yew staves this morning, there is a SLIGHT difference in tone, between similar size staves (and i got good ears....musician)

the, 6 month staves did have a dull thud, while the staves that have set for a year are higher and almost have a ring to it. im digging this method. "singing yew"

i dont have any "Seasoned" staves to test, maybe you could send me one  and ill let you know what it sounds like 

If you play guitar, try making a guitar saddle out of recently dried osage, and than one out of old brown osage. There is a big difference. The recently dried sounds horrible most of the time and really doesn't work in my experience,  usually it almost mutes the guitar. Where sometimes the old brown harder osage can give a sweet ringing tone to it, and give the guitar a nice earthy vibe. (Although it is still wood, and neither usually sound any better than a cheapo plastic saddle you get off cheap guitars.)

i like my guitars made from sitka spruce .

and even with that wood i always pick a guitar (Taylor of course  )with a tighter/straighter grain and ring count. it sounds smoother and a sweeter, like a choir of baby angels . but i think where getting a little off topic, unless you want to go into drum shells?! NOPE NVM IM DONE!


 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Guitars suck.....but a necessary evil.....

[ionicmuffin]

i hope that made sense, im a physics student, we learned that energy is transferred, so if the bows aren't as good from dried vs seasoned it stands to reason some kind of factor is using up the precious stored energy

[Gordon]

Dried wood (like any organic material) will change over long periods of time due to the effects of oxidation. But that process will degrade the wood rather than improve it. That’s why you wouldn’t want to draw a 500 year bow that has been exposed to air.

[ionicmuffin]

i agree, there is a point at which seasoning doesn't help. there is a period of time in which the wood is usable, from the time of cutting to whatever date is its length of lifespan. Yes osage will last YEARS past most woods, its rot resistant, and also seems to be usable 50 or so years after its been cut. so basically seasoning is worth it, but only to a certain point, looking at the lifespan of the wood would give you an approximate for how much seasoning you should go for. I dont think a bow would become better over seasoning time because the cells have already been damaged and bent in a certain direction.

[Carson (CMB)]

One of the reasons I love working with wood is because it is so complex, dynamic, and extremely variable.  The "wood" part of wood is comprised of Lignan.  Lignan is a catch all term for some of the most complex, variable, and largest molecules known to man.   We work with carbon-based skeletons from once living things, and no two examples of it are the same!  I love it!  I get all emotional cutting a yew tree that has been a living part of a forest for some 300 years.   

Who knows what is going on at the cellular level of that living thing once it is cut? Any scientist out there understand what happens during the drying process? During the seasoning process?  Anybody completely understand it? Anybody even vaguely grasp what is happening to wood on that level?   Nope.  It is too complex and variable.  So the answer is not in the text book, on wikipedia, or in a lab.  It is from our personal experience.  I have some experience working well-seasoned wood and it is different from just dry wood.  It looks different, feels different, sounds different, smells different, cuts different, sands different, glues different, bends different.  Is it better?  I don't know for sure, but it is most definitely different.  And given the choice, I would take seasoned dry wood over just dry anyday. 

For white woods, if you get whitewood dry initially, then decay is arrested and you are free to season it as long as you want, so long as it doesn't get too wet.

Wow, having a big cup o coffee after taking a week off has noticeable effects   

Here is osage one year old (yeller), and 20 years old (amber)

[toomanyknots]

Guitars suck.....but a necessary evil.....

  Blasphemy.

went out and bounced some yew staves this morning, there is a SLIGHT difference in tone, between similar size staves (and i got good ears....musician)

the, 6 month staves did have a dull thud, while the staves that have set for a year are higher and almost have a ring to it. im digging this method. "singing yew"

i dont have any "Seasoned" staves to test, maybe you could send me one  and ill let you know what it sounds like 

If you play guitar, try making a guitar saddle out of recently dried osage, and than one out of old brown osage. There is a big difference. The recently dried sounds horrible most of the time and really doesn't work in my experience,  usually it almost mutes the guitar. Where sometimes the old brown harder osage can give a sweet ringing tone to it, and give the guitar a nice earthy vibe. (Although it is still wood, and neither usually sound any better than a cheapo plastic saddle you get off cheap guitars.)

i like my guitars made from sitka spruce .
 

I meant just the saddle, not the whole guitar!  I have heard though that osage sounds identical to rosewood as a back and sides wood. Someday when I get enough tools and wood I wanna try to build me one. Someday when I am like 70,  . Ok, I'll stop going off topic now.

[Gordon]

Well, if anyone has some nicely seasoned yew or osage to spare, I would be happy to put this theory to the test 

[Bryce]

Dried wood (like any organic material) will change over long periods of time due to the effects of oxidation. But that process will degrade the wood rather than improve it. That’s why you wouldn’t want to draw a 500 year bow that has been exposed to air.

or a 60 yr./old bow 

[Carson (CMB)]

Dried wood (like any organic material) will change over long periods of time due to the effects of oxidation. But that process will degrade the wood rather than improve it. That’s why you wouldn’t want to draw a 500 year bow that has been exposed to air.

or a 60 yr./old bow 

LMAO...sorry Bryce.