Author Topic: Hickory backed Massaranduba - replaced backing page 2  (Read 6857 times)

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Offline Stefan

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Hickory backed Massaranduba - replaced backing page 2
« on: January 20, 2013, 08:44:19 am »
Hi All,

I would have loved to make pictures on the shooting range or in the field but this one didn't made it...I have shot 200 arrows with it but it gave way when I tried to shoot it this morning (on the first arrow)

The hickory back splinterd, I knew it had runoff but I htought this wasn't a big problem (being hickory and all). I orded this backing strip online because its hard to get hickory in the netherlands.  Do you feel that the backing was good enough to back a 50# bow with? It my first failure with hickory. Usually I dont have the difference of color in a backing strip (hardwood/softwood)..

Is it worth trying to fix? The crack is about 10inches long..

Could it have anything to do with moisture content? It has been cold over here the last 2 weeks...

Greeting

Stefan
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 01:28:31 pm by Stefan »
Iron rusts from disuse, water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.

Leonardo

Offline akila

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 10:06:38 am »
In whatt area of the limb, is the splinter??...aniway,  you could try to put some super glue in the crack line, and thenn, wrap that area with something...sinew, silk, etc....and thenn give it a try...you dont have nothing to loose..iff you leave it like that, it will surely broke  ....so, this is whatt i would do....good luck, and maybe a full draw picture  whenn the job is done??...:)

Offline lesken2011

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:34 am »
What a shame. I love that combo! That backing does have a pretty good run off.  I probably would have added a layer of linen or rawhide over that hickory. I had a hickory backed ipe do almost the same thing. I was able to wrap it at the tip of the crack and about half way down with artificial sinew soaked in superglue after re-gluing it down with TB3. It still shoots, but after several hundred shots I can see the crack starting to open up again and that limb has taken some set. I don't shoot it anymore, for the time being, but some of the advice on here recommended heating the bow up to release the glue and putting on a new back. The original bow had about an inch of set, so that will give me an opportunity to  put a little reflex in on this glue up. Yours is such a pretty bow, I wouldn't give up on it.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline Stefan

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 11:48:44 am »
In whatt area of the limb, is the splinter??...aniway,  you could try to put some super glue in the crack line, and thenn, wrap that area with something...sinew, silk, etc....and thenn give it a try...you dont have nothing to loose..iff you leave it like that, it will surely broke  ....so, this is whatt i would do....good luck, and maybe a full draw picture  whenn the job is done??...:)

The crack is pretty long (see picture). I dont think I will wrap it...

What a shame. I love that combo! That backing does have a pretty good run off.  I probably would have added a layer of linen or rawhide over that hickory. I had a hickory backed ipe do almost the same thing. I was able to wrap it at the tip of the crack and about half way down with artificial sinew soaked in superglue after re-gluing it down with TB3. It still shoots, but after several hundred shots I can see the crack starting to open up again and that limb has taken some set. I don't shoot it anymore, for the time being, but some of the advice on here recommended heating the bow up to release the glue and putting on a new back. The original bow had about an inch of set, so that will give me an opportunity to  put a little reflex in on this glue up. Yours is such a pretty bow, I wouldn't give up on it.

I used TBIII so maybe I will put a new back on to it...if I do use heat how will I make sure that only the glue line between hickory and massaranduba lets go and not the glue between the masaranduba and riser laminations?

Thanks akila and lesken for your answers!
Iron rusts from disuse, water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.

Leonardo

Offline dbb

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 01:27:51 pm »
I have ripped off a bad backing with heat once .I used a heatgun on the back only, starting with the tip and slid the shank of a screwdiver                               along where the glue let go to put some tension on the joint
If you heat it pretty fast it will let go before much heat travel to the other lam,and as you pull away the backing you take away most of the heat too.
Good luck  ;)
It's better to ask and look like a fool than not to ask and remain one...

Offline akila

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 05:36:13 pm »
Wow...thats a long splinter...sorry , i thaught its something arrounde 2" long...:)... you are right...its to ong to wrap it...just put another backing..maybe u can find some bamboo backing....but  athoer backing will do the job...use the heat only on the back, and it will  be easey to remove it...and thenn just clean the massaranduba, with some sand paper and glue another backing...keep us posted, how it will turn out..good luck

Offline Stefan

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 01:23:07 pm »
I have ripped off a bad backing with heat once .I used a heatgun on the back only, starting with the tip and slid the shank of a screwdiver                               along where the glue let go to put some tension on the joint
If you heat it pretty fast it will let go before much heat travel to the other lam,and as you pull away the backing you take away most of the heat too.
Good luck  ;)

Thanks adb, I have applied one coat of tung oil. Do you guys think this will be a problem if I try to glue on a new back?

Wow...thats a long splinter...sorry , i thaught its something arrounde 2" long...:)... you are right...its to ong to wrap it...just put another backing..maybe u can find some bamboo backing....but  athoer backing will do the job...use the heat only on the back, and it will  be easey to remove it...and thenn just clean the massaranduba, with some sand paper and glue another backing...keep us posted, how it will turn out..good luck

Hi akila, yup it is more a big crack then a splinter. sorry english is not my native language. If i remove the back i will certainly keep you posted
Iron rusts from disuse, water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.

Leonardo

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 01:33:47 pm »
That run off is severe on that back.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline boughnut

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 02:40:13 pm »
Hey stefan,

The runoffs I am afraid was not as big of an issue as the fact that that backing is mostly heart wood which is never to be used as a backing the white wood is sap and the brownish is heart that is where the problem is.  Hickory backing should be all sap wood and with little runoffs however In my experince that backing should have done fine if it was all sap wood.  .

Offline Stefan

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba..Update
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 10:48:53 am »
Hi all,

I removed the hickory back with a heat gun as you al suggested. I now have a smoot surfuce to glue on a new back, but since that hickory back failed I am pickier on selecting wood for the backing. I have 1 more hickory back from the same supllier as the previous one (that failed)

I would like to know if this backing will do fine..it also mostly heartwood, you can also see a bit of sapwood. The backing has more than enough width so I think I can trace the bow and make sure I don't have that much runoff. Will I be ok when using the heartwood or should I get an alternative --> boo, ash, maple?

If I can use the hickory backing should I glue it straight, or with a bit of reflex. The bow currently has a bit more than 3 of inches of set

Thanks,

Stefan
Iron rusts from disuse, water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.

Leonardo

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba -> Update @ bottom of page
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 01:21:18 pm »
I think that piece of hickory should be fine. Yes, there is some grain run off, but that is really minor and should not be a problem. The grain is straight enough and nicely quartersawn - hickory should be able to handle that just fine. That heartwood should also not be a problem. It's been reported that the heartwood is slightly weaker than the sapwood, but it's still plenty strong enough.
You need to be careful on prepping the glue surfaces. Those black markings on the hickory, created by the friction of the circular saw, must be removed prior to gluing. I prefer to clamp the backing down onto a flat work bench. I then use a sanding block with 80 grit sandpaper and press it down firmly. Use LONG strokes with even, hard, pressure. It takes only three minutes to prep the hickory lam that way.

I'm wondering where you got that hickory from. Fairbow maybe? I just like to know. You could try to show the supplier of the hickory these pictures and see what they got to say. I seriously doubt it will be your fault; that crack is a flaw in the backing. They might offer you a new one for free? Also, try to find out if the new hickory backing is cut from the same board/tree as the other one. Perhaps there was something wrong with that tree/board, such as ring shake.
In case you're looking for a replacement of that hickory, I'm pretty sure both bamboo and ash would do fine. The maple is a bit more tricky I think. However, creating a nice flat backing lam is of course a lot more complicated than just buying a flat backing lam. If you have a decent table saw, it's not a big issue, but with only hand tools it's going to be difficult. I can offer you a white oak backing lam (perfect grain), or a strip of bamboo, at low cost if you're interested. Shipping such a long item might be difficult, even within our country, but I could cut it in half so you can put a splice in the handle. But I'm pretty confident that this new hickory backing will salvage this bow.

Jorik
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Stefan

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba -> Update @ bottom of page
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 01:51:17 pm »
Hi Jorik,

Thanks for your answer. I got the hickory backings from the big auction site from a guy in hungary, he's not currently offering hickory backings any more but maybe I will try to get a new one or a discount if I place another order for some stuff.

I know about the saw friction marks, I still need to plane the backing and reduce the thickness,..but at the moment it is still to cold to glue (outside) anyways.Thank you very much for your offer on the backing strips, I am having problems finding good backing material so I might take you up on that..I like the look of bamboo on bows but the shipping will probably be problematic..

With titebond III you always rough up the surface with 80 grit sandpaper? Till now I have always made sure I have a perfect and smooth surface.

Thanks again

Stefan
Iron rusts from disuse, water loses its purity from stagnation... even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.

Leonardo

Offline bcbull

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba -> Update @ bottom of page
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 02:24:05 pm »
Hey bro i suggest u boo back it iv made 4 with book never had a plm i belive also the bulletwood over powes hickory i made one with whit oak no plm s im shootin one today for 3 d shoot boo backed. And they r fast as heck good luck Brock

Offline bubby

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba -> Update @ bottom of page
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2013, 03:19:55 am »
white oak as a backer is almost bullet proof, i'd take darksoul up on that offer
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

mikekeswick

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Re: Hickory backed Massaranduba -> Update @ bottom of page
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2013, 02:25:30 pm »
The real problem you have is that ttb 3 is a water based glue that works by essentially 'soaking' into the wood surfaces.
You will have to expose new wood on the massa to get an effective glue bond.
Tbb3 also requires next to perfect mating surfaces - bear this in mind.
You should pull the bow into a shade of reflex before gluing the backing on.
Good luck.