Positive tiller guys, how much do you do? 1/8"? 1/4"?

[toomanyknots]

Ballance is important. I just don't use a measuring tool to measure the tiller.  There are other things to think about...how you grip the handle and whether you shoot split fingers or 3 under.

I will say I grip the bow alot different than most people. At least I know that now. The reason I think that is, is that I place the arrow on the right side of the bow, instead of the left. Recently I have been trying to shoot on the left, and it seems that I need to apply a totally different group of muscles to grip the bow. As funny as something so small would effect you like that. When I tried to start shooting with the arrow on the left side, I noticed that I used mostly my fore finger, middle finger, and thumb "area", or the upper part of my hand more. When I shoot normally with the arrow on the right side, I use mostly the center or lower area of my hand more. Is this normal? As I really don't know what gripping the bow should be like, as I have just kinda learned as I go,  . I do use a split finger (one on top, two below) and as I understand it, different ways to grip the string, "split finger, 3 under", require different ways to grip the bow? I probably should pay more attention when these things get brought up,  .

[toomanyknots]

Now your learning toomany.. At least 1/8th to start.

 

[blackhawk]

"No, mostly hackberry and red oak."

Well there's your problem...quit using that junk wood     

[Pat B]

TMK, when you use your right hand to draw your fingers open to the left and with the arrow on the left the paradox is smoother because the initial movement of the arrow when released goes to the left. If you use a thumb ring then your thumb opens to the right and shooting from the right side is preferred. I'm not saying you are wrong in the way you shoot but it is out of the ordinary. For you to change now would be like starting from scratch. If you use a pinch relase like some Native Americans use either side would work.

[simson]

Lot of good thoughts and ideas here .... read this topic with great interest. Here mine:
The amount of positiv tiller depends on the length of the bow, so ¼ is ok for a 60" bow. For a shorty I would use ⅛. This is for me the rule given a clean stave without any whiggles. As others already said, if in the bow are some kinks etc. it can be right to choose even an negative tiller (for example here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35613.0.html?PHPSESSID=ojscmbeir9rl5rm6ccho63ej64 ).
I think both tips should travel with a balanced speed from f/d to brace. If it doesn't, the bow will still shoot. You can even shoot a bow with lower limb completely stiff. But you will loose cast, because of intern vibrations, noise etc.
Since I make very thin strings (changed from B50 to 452 X) I proove my bows by zipping on the string (while braced of course). I'm carefully listening to the sound. If I get a clear long tone, I think both limbs are matching. Having this tested on many bows, I really believe in this.

again, very good discussion

Simon

[Roy]

Toomanyknots, I think I have this fuggered  all out now.

You have too many knots.

[toomanyknots]

Toomanyknots, I think I have this fuggered  all out now.

You have too many knots.

  lol

TMK, when you use your right hand to draw your fingers open to the left and with the arrow on the left the paradox is smoother because the initial movement of the arrow when released goes to the left. If you use a thumb ring then your thumb opens to the right and shooting from the right side is preferred. I'm not saying you are wrong in the way you shoot but it is out of the ordinary. For you to change now would be like starting from scratch. If you use a pinch relase like some Native Americans use either side would work.

Oh I know I sure ain't normal. No debating that. I'd like to learn to shoot with the arrow on the left side though. I have been practicing, but I swear it's a whole different group of muscles for me to just switch the arrow to the other side. I can draw 80# @ 28" fairly easily, but the other day trying to draw a 60# bow to even 26" with the arrow on the left side was proving impossible for me, haha.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Do you suppose pulling a right handed bow the way you do adds excess torque to the bottom limb? Just a guess.

[toomanyknots]

Do you suppose pulling a right handed bow the way you do adds excess torque to the bottom limb? Just a guess.

Maybe.

[Gordon]

I generally use a 1/8 to 1/4 inch positive tiller and I usually make my limbs asymetrical (top 2" longer than bottom). That said, I've made bows with symetrical limbs and no positive tiller and frankly I can't tell the difference when I use them - they all seem to shot fine for me.

[Roy]

I can't see how shooting the arrow off the left side of the bow is going to make you use other muscles. What you are doing now is ass backwards, so why not put a serious effort into shooting off the correct side of the bow? Sure it will feel awkward for a while but you will get accustomed to it rather quickly.

And for $99.00/hr, I will come out there and coach ya through it:)

[Del the cat]

Yeah this is all well and good assuming your bow is straight in the first place!
I never measure it, although I do look for symmetry of the lower limb or maybe a tad stiffer.
I once had the esteemed Robert Hardy (who wrote 'Longbow') tell me one of my longbows was built upside down
Maybe I should have bit my tongue, but I popped off the string and showed him the natural deflex in the lower limb .
I'm not really sure if one limb can really recover much faster than the other, as they are not separate limbs... they join in the middle and the ends are joined by the string ! (Yes really... you've never noticed?)
One limb tip won't stop moving until the string stops it right?
If that tip has stopped, then that end of the string has stopped...right?
If one end of the string has stopped then the other end has also stopped... right?
... and it that string end has stopped the limb tip has stopped too!
So.... both tips stop simultaneously...
Mind, that's not to say the bow hasn't tilted during that time ... but, by then the point of the arrow, with it's nice point stuffed full of inertia is alread on it's way towards the target, and the back of the arrow may waggle a little as it catches up (hey wait for me!).
Does it really matter? How many angels can dance on the point of an arrow as it spins towards the target?
Del

[toomanyknots]

I generally use a 1/8 to 1/4 inch positive tiller and I usually make my limbs asymetrical (top 2" longer than bottom). That said, I've made bows with symetrical limbs and no positive tiller and frankly I can't tell the difference when I use them - they all seem to shot fine for me.

Thanks Gordon. For me, if I don't make sure to at least have a stronger bottom limb, than it will feel like my drawing arm is pulling up when I draw, and as a result, my arrows will fly down/south of the target.

[toomanyknots]

I can't see how shooting the arrow off the left side of the bow is going to make you use other muscles. What you are doing now is ass backwards, so why not put a serious effort into shooting off the correct side of the bow? Sure it will feel awkward for a while but you will get accustomed to it rather quickly.

And for $99.00/hr, I will come out there and coach ya through it:)

...maybe the problem is I don't have any muscles to begin with... Seems more likely. 

[Roy]

What Del said..

I think?

TMK, can't never tried:)