Author Topic: A hackberry bow that is in progress...  (Read 25664 times)

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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 12:10:58 am »
Looking good to me,I have chased it before for the same reason ,pretty easy to follow. :)
   Pappy

Thank ya Pappy! Well, I got this one tillered out and all burnished up, and basically ready for waxing and throwing a handle on, and calling it done. Unfortunately I will have to wait to get a full draw photo. I don't use my tiller tree anymore, except to check draw weight, just because I feel it adds unnecessary set. (Been using a mirror for 100% of the tillering, and I am loving it.) I should probably have some finished pictures sometime friday or saturday,...  :( Anyway, I added a paduak shelf to match the overlays. I am going with a little over an 1/8" positive tiller with this one, and I am hoping that works out.





Here's some pictures of another hackberry bow I am working on at the moment. This is the first one I did using a new recurve from I made. It kinda looked weird at first, but I think the bow turned out pretty good, so far anyway. I have yet to shoot it still. It is 64 5/8" NTN, and feels like it will be pulling 50# - 60# when finished. It pulls really really smooth. At first I thought I screwed up the recurve forms, but after getting it braced, I think I will use these forms again.















« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 12:16:29 am by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 12:19:28 am »












"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline bow101

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 12:29:37 am »

  Thx for posting yur build and all the pix, great stuff.
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are."  Joseph Campbell

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 12:29:39 am »
Mmmmm, can't wait to see the full draw pics on this one, buddy! 

I really like your work and I'm especially fond of hackberry.  It's almost as if you planned on making this bow according to my preferences. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline steve b.

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 03:03:46 am »
I really like it too.  Again, sexy.  Do you intend the recurves to work alittle?  Good info on the hackberry too..........

blackhawk

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 08:18:05 am »
Are you tempering that stuff yet? It'll make a world of difference with hackberry,and you'll love the results....especially with a more stressed design starting with that much reflex.

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 11:03:57 am »
Are you tempering that stuff yet? It'll make a world of difference with hackberry,and you'll love the results....especially with a more stressed design starting with that much reflex.

I used to heat treat bows on my stove, but I never liked the look of a burnt up bow. In most situations, unless the bow is very over stressed, I would rather take my inch or so of set and live with it. I might buy a heat gun and heat treat a couple shorter hackberry recurves, but the more I think on it, the more I think I am going to pass on it. I guess I would rather prefer my bows mushy as you've called my bows before, rather than look like they've survived a house fire,  ;).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:09:20 am by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 11:20:26 am »

  Thx for posting yur build and all the pix, great stuff.

No problem, thank you!

Mmmmm, can't wait to see the full draw pics on this one, buddy! 

I really like your work and I'm especially fond of hackberry.  It's almost as if you planned on making this bow according to my preferences. 

Thank ya! Ya, I like how I really only gotta find one or two good tree's of it too, and I'm good for the year. I really like how it takes to steaming too, you can bend the ba-jesus out of it, rather easily.

I really like it too.  Again, sexy.  Do you intend the recurves to work alittle?  Good info on the hackberry too..........

Thank ya steve. When tillering this bow, I left the recurves a bit thicker, so that they will be static, although they always pull out just a bit. Well, these haven't much yet, but I still have to shoot it in, and do some final sanding. I hopefully will get the handled shaped, and get it shot it and almost finished today. If my wife is in a good mood when she gets home from school, maybe I can con a couple fulldraw pictures out of her,  ;D. I'm pretty pleased with set so far, I have pulled it probably to probably 29" a bunch of times, and only have about a 1" set. Which ain't super bad I guess. Mostly because I am thinking it still had a bit of moisture. And also because I am pulling it pretty far. It is kinda a bad habit when checking tiller in my mirror though, to pull it farther than I probably should, as I watch the bend.

"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 11:22:03 am »
Mt first Hackberry bow I made was about 3 years ago.  I actually helped a guy make the bow.  2" wide parallel limbs, around 64" long.  2" or so of reflex ended up around 3" of string follow.  Been heat treating them since, and I can go shorter and/or narrower with almost no string follow.  My thinking was like yours for a while on this "heat tempering thing".  Gotta tell ya though, I would never make another Hackberry bow if I didn't temper it.  It makes that much of a difference.  Just IMO for what it's worth.

Sweet lookin' bows BTW.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 11:38:05 am »
If performance isnt a priorioty, but appearance is, then not tempering your bow is a good choice.

I have noticed most of the darker color nearly disappears with a stain applied, you hardly see it.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 11:43:30 am »
Mt first Hackberry bow I made was about 3 years ago.  I actually helped a guy make the bow.  2" wide parallel limbs, around 64" long.  2" or so of reflex ended up around 3" of string follow.  Been heat treating them since, and I can go shorter and/or narrower with almost no string follow.  My thinking was like yours for a while on this "heat tempering thing".  Gotta tell ya though, I would never make another Hackberry bow if I didn't temper it.  It makes that much of a difference.  Just IMO for what it's worth.

Sweet lookin' bows BTW.

Honestly, I just don't like how it looks, is the only reason. Not arguing with you an blackhawk about the advantage by any means. I've seen the beautiful reflex Marc St'Louis's bows always hold, and I've read the chapter he wrote in TBB on heat treating, and a thread he has posted on heat treating here. I just never liked the look of a burnt up bow?  ??? I'm sure I'll give it another go when I get a heat gun though.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

blackhawk

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2013, 12:16:16 pm »
If you temper it and do it right it won't look all burnt up. You can temper it some time between floor tiller and right before ya brace it,and by the time you finish tillering it out most if not all the color will be gone,yet you still get the advantages and much better set results than not tempering at all...that solves your aesthetic issue...that is how I do most of mine,and most the time will not lose anymore than 2" of total set just like with any other wood. I rarely temper twice...its usually once after a good nice even floor tiller.

I'm just trying to help ya out man..I'm not being demeaning to you.

As far as the mushy thing goes,that was not a comment on your bows...that was in a debate.over someone else's thread who wanted to get rid of some follow in an already over stressed bow,and adding curves will just make it worse and the limbs more "mushy".

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2013, 01:26:18 pm »
If you temper it and do it right it won't look all burnt up. You can temper it some time between floor tiller and right before ya brace it,and by the time you finish tillering it out most if not all the color will be gone,yet you still get the advantages and much better set results than not tempering at all...that solves your aesthetic issue...that is how I do most of mine,and most the time will not lose anymore than 2" of total set just like with any other wood. I rarely temper twice...its usually once after a good nice even floor tiller.

I'm just trying to help ya out man..I'm not being demeaning to you.

As far as the mushy thing goes,that was not a comment on your bows...that was in a debate.over someone else's thread who wanted to get rid of some follow in an already over stressed bow,and adding curves will just make it worse and the limbs more "mushy".

So you remember...  ;) ...pretty sure you were talking about my bows, specifically a hackberry bow I was building at the time, that had been denounced by pearl drums and you as impossible to patch, even though I had patched many before, and was fully aware of what I was doing? Here's the thread:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/431314/Re-Recurving-a-warbow#.UPgikPIrcwo

"@toomanyknots....dude...im speaking from experience and from what I have seen...im not acting and regurgitating info....and go ahead and waste your time sinewing your tension cracked across the back mushy hackberry limbs and dont heed the advice from some experienced guys."

LOL, Anyhoo blackhawk....,  ;D, The bows I've heat treated, I followed Marc St'Louis's example, but with my stove. Even when browning slightly only, I still ended up with it being pretty obvious, which to my tastes, just don't look very pretty. Also, my best results with heat treating was after the bow was fully tillered anyway. I am sure my results would benefit from alot more practice, and also a less crude set up than my stove top. I'm sure my lack of experience with heat treating can be blamed for my results as well. Aesthetically though, I think it looks ok on a primitive bow, but on a longbow or something, it just looks ugly. Just my personal OCD opinion. The way I been tillering bows lately, and have had a good amount of success with in regards of set, by the time I string the bow, I am already down to where it needs only a couple scraps and some final sanding. Which is probably over longstring tillering it, I know. But it seems to keep set down alot. I would probably end up with alot of burnt wood on the belly I'm thinking though, the way I have been making bows like this lately. But like I said, I will give it another go when I get a heat gun. As the results yall get with heat treating speak for themselves, once again, absolutely no argument there, :).  If I was making this bow 100% for performance anyway though, I wouldn't of added overlays at all, and I would of added two or three layers of sinew as well to the inner limbs, making sure to sinew in reflex, one layer at a time, one month at least between layers. I would probably do a cord wrap or a naked handle instead of leather that will just get mucked up eventually in the rain too. Definitely no shelf.  ...And I would of definitely heat treat the belly,  >:D >:D >:D.

If performance isnt a priorioty, but appearance is, then not tempering your bow is a good choice.

I have noticed most of the darker color nearly disappears with a stain applied, you hardly see it.

That is a good point. But in this particular situation, I am not going to lose any sleep over an inch of set.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2013, 01:39:24 pm »
You shouldnt be bragging about all the bows you have patched man! SSSSHHHHH....that stuff is suppose to be a secret, kinda like missing deer and stuff. Never did hear back on that patch job, I figured you would rub my nose in it since I was wrong about it working out.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

blackhawk

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Re: A hackberry bow that is in progress...
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2013, 01:50:13 pm »
  Yup...hackberry is mushy alright....if not heat treated ;)  even you admit this. Not that it matters cus that/this has nothing to do with the discussion here...but your thread there was spilled comments about the previous thread I had mentioned about someone else's post..not yours. And it doesn't surprise me that you actually took the time to find something that's totally irrelevant to what's being discussed.

Alright..ill say this out in the open....you obviously have a passion/obsession/addiction about building bows...and its obvious you want to make a better bow....but your like an addict who knows he has a problem,but doesn't want to hear the solution to fix his problem. People try to help you and give you honest advice,and you shun them away with a defensive attitude. Please try not to take things and constructive criticism so personal.  A lot of folks will stop trying to help someone when they won't listen and take there advice when its being asked for.

It don't bother me none if you don't temper hackberry...if your fine and happy with the results of having "mushier" limbs then keep on keeping on....;)




Oh...boy oh boy....I started a war now...lol.  :laugh: