100# short bow

[andybutrick]

Hello fello bowyers, I have a dream.  I am fairly new to building bows.  I've built mostly board bows from hickory, an have finished tillered hickory backed bamboo.  I am always attempting to achieve a shorter, higher draw weight bow.  I have never tested the weight of my bows, but in comparision, mine tend to be heavier than 50#.  I have a cayuga recurve stave from rudderbows.com.  The weight of this bow at 28" is more than I can pull steadily, meaning, over 70#.  The string is cutting into the bamboo, and I did't get the rind from the bamboo clean enough, but so far this 62" short bow performs well at over 70#.  I'll add tip overlays from deer antler, clean up the rind, and test the weight.  My topic is how to successfully put together a short bow similar to this at over 80#.  I found a great bowyer at sllongbow@yahoo.com named Mike Berenger.  He sent to me pretapered osage belly, pretapered ipe middle, and bamboo backing.  We talked about glass on the back and the belly, but I will be stuck with nothing but side tillering, and I think I need to fine tune the bow with more option than only the sides.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Marc St Louis]

I don't see a problem tillering a 3 lam bow with an Osage belly

[andybutrick]

My mistake, Mike Ballenger at sllongbow.yahoo.com.

[andybutrick]

The osage has good structure and is the right thickness, the ipe seems almost flawless, but the backing and re-enforcing the belly is the question.  I am want to test the limit and create a short bow towards 100lbs. at 28".  This is likely to come apart unless re-enforced with glass or bamboo.  I typically crown the back, and keep the belly almost flat.  This will be bend through the handle, which is what I love to shoot.  I tend to favor the arrow by belly tillering.  It really works.  The arrow side is slightly thinner and bends to give the arrow a true flight.  Mike is recomending glass or bamboo re-enforcement to avoid catastrophy.  Clear glass on the back and belly, awesome!  How can I tiller glass?  Maybe bamboo?  Or should I make a sandwhich of hickory?

[PatM]

This is something you should be discussing with Mike.

[adb]

This is something you should be discussing with Mike.

+1

[bubby]

we actually dont talk glass on bows here, maybe in around the campfire

[Del the cat]

I'd say you are getting lured down a fruitless track...
Don't take this hard as we've all been caught out chasing the ill advised from time to time (bows as well a girls )
Going shorter and shorter at high draw weights is just chasing higher and higher stress on the bow, for what purpose?
If you struggle with 70# why try to build 100# ? (ok I made a 90# warbow which took me two weeks trainging to draw )
Buying pre tapered components and gueing 'em together is 'manufacturing' or 'assembling' a bow (OK just my opinion and I'm not decrying lamianted bows per se).
It's a good way to get started but is moving towards the dreaded glass fibre and such like.

I'd suggest you try a simpler (but not easier) path to gain experience. You can still return to laminates and glass if that turns out to be your bag.
Trust me on this, there is little to beat the thrill of a bow made from wood you cut youself. The feeling you could go back and take a pic of the bow next to the tree it was harvested from.
If you try this, you will learn skills which will stand you in good stead whichever path you choose.
Ok, your first self bow may turn out to be a 35# but I'll promise it will give you more satisfacion than one built from pre shaped timber.
Del
(BTW, Please guys don't think I'm knocking laminates, they are just a different discipline, and if you you do all the work yourself are no 'soft option' )

[crooketarrow]

  I totally agree with DEL.
 I've built qiut a few bows in the 70's a couple in the 80's a 97 and a 102. All OSAGE WOOD BOWS NO BACKING. a COUPLE OF THE 70'S BOWS WERE 64"S. All the others werfe 66 one 67"s. I also had a 105 break it was 68" O'SAGE.
  WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO KNOW THE WEIGHT OF YOUR BOWS. THATS A MUST IN BOW BUILTING. If you use different woods and designs. Plus why build a bow you can shoot comforable or at all.
 If for going to step up your bow building. You have to make a tillering tree with a scale. Not only to build a bow to the weight you want. But to help keep the stress off your limbs as you tiller your bow.
   As far as your bow. If it has a boo backing I see no reason if you keep it to 66 to 68"s. But thats a long draw lenth for that weight forget about 100#'s. So it's still a maybe. But at 62"s your setting yourself up to fail. Glue if not but on in the right temp. tends to not hold a that high of #'s. For now and build you a few bows in your range of exsperance. I'm not cracking on you but if you've only ever built a couple board bows. Get a little exsperance before you start thinking about 100 #'s.
  It will save you a lot of heart break and time.
  BUT GOOD LUCK

[JackCrafty]

There are plenty of historical examples of "short" bows with 100+ draw weight but they are all composite bows.  Think horn and sinew.

I don't build laminated bows.  Marc is the expert with lams and if he says it can be done, that's good enough for me.  You've got options.

[PatM]

It's pretty simple to build a short sinewed bow pulling 100 plus pounds and I have little doubt that a bamboo backed Ipe could do it.
 I wouldn't consider 62 inches short so that makes the process that much easier. Shooting it is what may be a problem.

[Gordon]

You can certainly build high poundage bows using a laminated design. My experience, however, is that the small design or execution flaws that you can get away with on lighter weight bows will often prove catastrophic when trying for a high poundage bow. If you want to make 100# laminate bows, first learn how to make perfect (and I mean perfect) 50# bows.

[Weylin]

I have a question that I don't intend to be critical, it's just out of curiosity.

Why a 100# shortbow?

Everyone is into archery for different reasons. some people are hunters, some are target shooters, some are competition flight shooters, some are into historical recreation and I'm sure there are other reasons and many people are a combination of these but I just don't see where this bow you want to build fits into all of that. It's way overkill for hunting and target shooting, it isn't historical, I guess it could be for flight shooting if that's your thing but it doesn't sound like it. The English Warbow guys build bows this heavy but they use them for a specific type of shooting and for historical re-enactments, it's not my thing, but I think I get it.  Like I said, I'm not trying to judge but to understand what you would use this bow for and how it would be better at that purpose than a lighter weight bow.

[medicinewheel]

... If you want to make 100# laminate bows, first learn how to make perfect (and I mean perfect) 50# bows.

...and than 60#, 70#... and so forth! 

I've build a total of like 60 or 70 bows, more of those with pleasing results than with total failure (knock-knock-knock...). Right now for the first time I'm struggling with a 100# 4-lam ELB, and by struggling I mean STRUGGLING. And we talk about a draw weight typical for this design since hundreds of years!

Anyway: EUCH ALLEN EINEN GUTEN RUTSCH INS NEUE JAHR!!! ...which translates to "You all have a good slight into the New Year!"

[kevinsmith5]

In addition to straining the design materials, you're gonna strain your fingers. There's a reason the Mongols used a thumb draw on those high poundage composite horn bows, the acute string angle makes for a mighty hard pinch on three fingers....