16th century Spanish "ballesta" crossbow - with shooting videos and testing info

[Ifrit617]

These are works of art Dane, do you have any pictures of your collection? I wold love to see one!

Jon

[Dane]

Thanks, killir duck and Infrit617.

I went and did initial shooting earlier today, and it really does exceed my expectations. Yes, there will be two short videos, and a few still shots, but I was messing about on the range and still have to get my deadlines met, so I have to get back to that. I will say that the long trigger makes for a very easy release, and I did have to make a few adjustments to the lock. I will go over that later and also do some decent videos and photos, and observations on the strenghts and weaknesses of this design, over the weekend. But I am smiling, and this one was a success.

Dane

[gstoneberg]

Great work there Dane.  Stringing that thing would really up the pucker factor for me.  Hadn't thought about how big a deal that would be until those pictures.  Can't wait for the videos.

George

[Dane]

Thanks, Scott, and thanks, George. Yes, there is a...bit....of stress and excitement when stringing a heavier crossbow. The good thing is once you do it, you are set until you have to replace the string for whatever reason.

I'll get a few more pics and (I did it before, I keep saying to myself) videos, via youtube later this evening or tomorrow, and then more videos and stuff shortly after that. I didn't catch my first bad shot on video, but you should have seen the sparks flying when I aimed too low and the bolt skidded across the concrete floor. It was fun

Dane

[Dane]

Well, this may not be totally satisfying, but I didn't have a lot of time at the range today, and so only got a few shots. More and much better soon, promise.

But, here are a few. I set up a standard round hay archery target by leaning it up against an aluminum step ladder (didn't feel like hauling the heavy stand into the basement range), and shot at it at 15 yards. The bolt penetrated nicely, and thwacked the ladder a few times, as the bolts were getting in there deep.




I'm holding the bolt at the point where the shaft was exiting the target.

Overall, totally fun. I can't even say what kind of performance this thing is getting in FPS yet. Ah for a chronograph. I'll see if any club members have one I can borrow.

As I said, more stuff over the weekend.

Dane

[Dane]

Now I have started testing the crossbow.

I did have to modify the rolling nut, and enlarge the space between the lugs, as it was too narrow for my bolts. Many medieval crossbows (and most if not all modern ones) had bolt clips, and I don't really care for them, and with the Spanish bows, they never had clips in the first place. The bolt is wedged into the lug, which holds it reasonably well.

Then, I had an issue with spanning it. When you span the crossbow, ideally, the string pushes the nut back and it locks into place as the trigger, pushed by it's spring, moves into the and against the sear. This wasnt quiet happening, so I glued on a very thin wedge shaped shim of sorts to the back surface of the nut. It worked perfectly, and when I span it now, the nut does it's thing and it is ready to shoot.

Here is the nut with the bit of antler glued on. I filed it down, and it was a simple job. About 20 minutes of filing gave me the little wedge shape I needed, with the high end of the wedge to the rear.



And it all worked out well. The first youtube video (I hope I got this right), shows the spanning and shooting process. It is an indoor pistol range I am using, and the crossbow is resting on a couple of sandbags, which puts the trigger up of the bench surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYU4k17a_o

It worked. It is about 34 seconds long, hoperfully not too boring.

You can see the velocity i am getting, maybe 160 fps? I think this is pretty decent for a light crossbow, and the medieval crossbows. According to someone who posted on another site:

Jean Liebel in the book Springalds and Great Crossbows the initial velocity was 50 to 60 metres/second in general for medieval crossbows.

Factor in also that crossbow bolts are very heavy. I use 3/8" oak doweling for the basis for my bolts, and 125 grain heads, which are pretty light, really. You have slower velociites, but heavy bolts, which do some damage to anyone unfortuante to be at the pointy end. And, a true replica of a Spanish military crossbow would have at least a 350-400 lb. prod minimum.

is my very first 3-shot group once I determined that the bow worked. No sights, and you aim using the bolt tip as an aiming reference. It takes a lot of time, like with primitive bows, to start hitting consistently. And this shot shows my second (two!) shot group. I was so excited, I decided to not fire that third bolt and ruin a nice group



Here is the back of the target. The bolts were punching mostly and all the way through. Some areas are denser on the target, which is a bit old, but overall, decent penetration.



And finally, while i was at the range, a zombie showed up! Oh no, but luckily I was armed, conquistador style. Got him in the head, but not the brain area, alas, and he then bit me and I am writing this as a zombie armburster. Dont send flowers, as I wont appreciate them in my new dead state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMt9y72KbuM

Notice the target shake when the bolt hits? This stuff is fun.

Now, a few more words. Just a short time at the range, maybe an hour, and I had an issue come up. The rear bone bearing block became loose. That shows the forces at work even with such a low powered weapon. It will be an easy fix, and many heavier bows had the front and back bearing blocks pinned into place with small rivets. That is something I will not neglect in the future, and it is all about learning by doing.

Hopefully, more and better videos later, but for now, I am done with this weapon. And I have already started my next project, and will spend the first day of the new year in my shop. All of you have a fantastic, boozy (or not boozy) celebration, and cheers to all. I welcome any comments as always. Thanks.

Dane

[Del the cat]

Nice vid
Del

[gstoneberg]

O, that is way cool.  Looks like it shoots great.  How long is that bolt?? 

George

[Dane]

Del, thanks. Im still a bit new to youtube video stuff.

George, thanks. The bolts are a shade over 14" long, two fletched, and no spining to worry about! I dont have a grain scale handy, so I can't tell you how much they weigh, but more than a cocktail umbrella and less than an adult pug.

Dane

[gstoneberg]

Hmmm, I need to design one that shoots a longer bolt.  May have to PM you and do some arm chair engineering...

Very nice work!

George

[Dane]

If I can help in any way, just yell. Historically, crossbow bolts are short. These things can be super powerful, but the ballistics are different than with bows, and what you can or cannot do are dependent upon many factors. They do shoot a pretty high arc, too, as you probably have noticed. One real positive is that you can learn to shoot a crossbow much more quickly than a self bow. To become a champion shooter, that is different of course

And, they are just flat out cool Far more complex than a bow, but that is part of the appeal of them, too.

Dane

[gstoneberg]

Thanks.  The modern crossbow I've been playing with shoots 18" bolts and has a trajectory similar to low end modern wheelie bows.  Hunting weight bolts shoot in the 250fps range.  Of course, it isn't fair to compare your replica to a current crossbow in terms of performance.  It terms of "cool" factor your bow is far superior.  I would have to rig up a "safety" of some kind before I'd be willing to hunt with it.  Season is about over for this year, but next season I'd sure like to be using a crossbow I made instead of one I bought, unless I can't make one that's safe enough.  I really like your spanner.  I can say from experience that pulling that string back at 175 lbs does take some effort.  The stirrup popped off my boot once and I tried to drive the butt-stock through my chest.  Not my idea of a good time.

I'll PM you my email address so we can take this off-line.  I don't want to muddy up your great build.

George

[Del the cat]

In my experience with those big long triggers, the 'safety' is just holding the stock with all your fingers between stock and trigger so it can't be pressed.
The trigger pull is more like squeezing a grease gun rather than a hair trigger.
Del

[gstoneberg]

In my experience with those big long triggers, the 'safety' is just holding the stock with all your fingers between stock and trigger so it can't be pressed.
The trigger pull is more like squeezing a grease gun rather than a hair trigger.
Del

I believe you Del, but remember that I intend to hunt with this crossbow.  You have to consider the dangers associated with getting the bow into a tree stand, spanning it while 15' in the air...standing on an 18"x24" platform, then safely hanging it from a hook so that your hands/arms don't go completely to sleep while you're waiting  for game to show up.  Worse yet, I sometimes sit in a ground blind with a 9 year old granddaughter who tries to hold still but fails...and gets into everything.   Believe me, Murphy loves bowhunters...so if something can go wrong it will, and at the worst possible moment.  The arrows have broadheads on the front; I neeeeeed a safety.

George

[Dane]

George, review the photos I posted on page 2. Some of the Spanish bows came with a kind of safety, and it is pretty clever. I was going to install one on this, but just didn't, but future ones of this style I do plan to do that to.

It is one of the top bows in the first shot. You see a kind of post looking thingie between the bottom of the stock and the trigger. It is a little bar that is pinned into the stock and rotates up and down. The top surface of the trigger has a slot in it (milling it in would be pretty easy, even by using a drill press and files). The little bar rotates down 90 degrees and engages in the slot in the trigger. When you are ready to shoot, simply rotate the little bar forward and up and you are ready to go.

Later period historic crossbows did have build in safeties, they looked like keys. I have details around here on that, and builders come up with various means of putting the crossbow on "safe."

Even a wooden wedge that you can slip between the trigger and stock will help, but not as effective as something a bit more well designed.

Dane