Why I think osage is an inferior bow wood...

[Parnell]

Yup, the "Australian Pine" - Casuarina Equisetifolia is serious stuff.  I once cut a 3/4" sapling and made a bow from it a week later.  It is still shooting about 3 years later.  Don't really think I ever posted it...but it's a real stickbow about 65" long or so.  It looks like a toothpick but pulls 50# at 28".  I still like Osage better for the sheer beauty, bending properties, humidity resistance, general 1st class performance properties, etc., etc., but it has it's own qualities.  I need to get out and cut some new large diameter good pieces for testing, like this.  I'll work on getting some cut soon and bandsawing it in pieces.  It's gotta be the nastiest wood on the planet to split because it is the ultimate in interlocked grain.  I promise, when I do, a stave has your name on it. 

And, as far as firewood goes, I'm thinking that the Casuarina puts out more heat also.  From what I've read it's one of the hottest burning woods in the world.  It just doesn't burn as long as other woods...which makes sense...

Anyhow...I digress.

[RyanY]

Gordon, You make a very good point about wood thickness is similarly designed bows. But at the same time I've built osage bows that are thicker than whitewood bows with similar designs.

blackhawk, your points on tension, compression, and elasticity are all invalid because design can take all of those into account. *cough* my poplar bow *cough*. And technically, according to the mass principle, it takes the same amount of wood to make any bow. Perhaps you mean it takes less volume of osage to make a bow in which case I completely agree.

With regards to people saying that osage makes a superior hunting bow. The fact that many people have taken game with osage bows is a completely one sided argument considering that many more people make and hunt with them. For thousands of years civilizations have hunted with bows made from woods other than osage. Again, I'm not saying osage is inferior like the title suggests. But you'll have to prove to me that other hardwoods that are capable of making bows can't take the stresses of a hunting season. An explanation would be fantastic. I do admit that the poplar bow I made took a beating but I'm sure harder white woods could take a better beating. Make an osage bow with the grain runout that hickory can take. I dare you! 

[PEARL DRUMS]

That polar board isnt a bow Ryan. Its a bent board that didnt break.

[RyanY]

Pearl Drums, The point is that wood can bend as far as other woods if designed properly. If I made the bow 50% wider and added a handle section then we wouldn't be having this argument. Why is it so difficult for you all to understand that? Also, that osage you burned better have been scrap. If it were staves then you should have sent them to me. 

[blackhawk]

Reason number 265,432 why osage is one of the superior bow woods....

How many threads have we seen with questions like " what's your favorite wood" or "list your ten favorite woods".....if you have seen and remembered them all, there is a reoccurring theme to this very day and it hasn't changed...osage will be mentioned more times than ANY no matter what number you number it...how can it be inferior then? Oh..they all must be wrong.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Properties of wood cant be argued. Applying those properties to a usable tool can be. I cant debate your numbers and I totally standunder what your saying, I can however debate them becoming a usable tool. 50% wider? Good Lord man! I dont believe they mill boards that wide!

If you have no osage and want a stave, its yours......even if you are a Sparty! I dont live far from you, so your welcome to stop by and grab one anytime. PM me if you want my address.

[RyanY]

blackhawk, if that logic were true then the earth is technically flat and is the center of the universe!

Pearl Drums, We should definitely meet up sometime. Maybe shoot a little and you can teach me all about why osage is king!

[PEARL DRUMS]

My pleasure Ryan. Get with me after Christmas if you want to. I have a 17 yard range in the basement, so weather isnt a concern. And I have 9' ceilings so those extra long inferior white wood bows of yours wont hit the floor joists!

[BowEd]

Gordon, You make a very good point about wood thickness is similarly designed bows. But at the same time I've built osage bows that are thicker than whitewood bows with similar designs.

blackhawk, your points on tension, compression, and elasticity are all invalid because design can take all of those into account. *cough* my poplar bow *cough*. And technically, according to the mass principle, it takes the same amount of wood to make any bow. Perhaps you mean it takes less volume of osage to make a bow in which case I completely agree.

With regards to people saying that osage makes a superior hunting bow. The fact that many people have taken game with osage bows is a completely one sided argument considering that many more people make and hunt with them. For thousands of years civilizations have hunted with bows made from woods other than osage. Again, I'm not saying osage is inferior like the title suggests. But you'll have to prove to me that other hardwoods that are capable of making bows can't take the stresses of a hunting season. An explanation would be fantastic. I do admit that the poplar bow I made took a beating but I'm sure harder white woods could take a better beating. Make an osage bow with the grain runout that hickory can take. I dare you! 

OK Ryan you get up with me every day for a month at least at 5 AM.Then go back at 2 PM.For a total of 6 to 7 hours a day to hunt.You can do this yourself but it sounds like you hav'nt.That would be fantastic.

[blackhawk]

Pearl while he visits go take this boy hunting and knock some sense in him,cus he told me before that he's never hunted

Ryan your point is invalid because we are talking bows and not 15th century thoughts....you have done nothing but proven osage is one of the superior bow woods,and haven't proven and refuted that it isn't yet.

[Pappy]

Man the world at flat,Dang I love this place,learn something new everyday. Thanks for keeping it civil guys.Great bunch. 
I will check in in the morning,I feel sure it will still be going on.
   Pappy

[RyanY]

Pearl, Sounds good man!

Beadman, If I get to sleep at 2pm I'm in. 

Blackhawk, my point is valid because all three can be scientifically proved. To say osage is better because it can can bend farther than other woods at higher weights is invalid because other woods can be designed to do the same thing. If a wood isn't as elastic then it'll need to be thinner and wider. If it's less dense then wider still. Compression or tension strong? Appropriate trapping. Osage is great wood, don't get me wrong, but to say its better for certain reasons when it's not is bogus.

[blackhawk]

Man the world at flat,Dang I love this place,learn something new everyday. Thanks for keeping it civil guys.Great bunch. 
I will check in in the morning,I feel sure it will still be going on.
   Pappy

Yup..the earth she's a round pappy...and I'm sure it will still be going on,cus I will do my duty and defend OUR king until the day I day...

[osage outlaw]

I have a question for the people that aren't crazy about osage.  Does it grow locally around you?  I think location has as much to do with a persons view on bow wood as about anything else.  If you are covered up with osage I bet that will be your preferred choice.  I think the same would go for other types of trees also.  If you have an abundance of one type of wood available, you are probably going to build more bows from that than anything else.  You will probably experiment and push the limits with it more than you would with something else thats hard to come by.  I love HHB but I don't have any around me so I have to trade for it.  I'm not going to push the envelope when I use it because I don't want to risk breaking one of the few staves that I have.  Now I'm blessed to live in an osage forest so if I break a piece of that, no big deal.  I'll just grab another piece and move on.  So at the end of the day if I look at all of my bows and see that the best performers are osage, is it because it is superior wood, or is it because of my location and its availability?     I don't know, its just another view to a question that might not have an answer.

And thanks guys, this thread has really kept me entertained for the last couple of days 

[rossfactor]

I definitely don't think Osage is an inferior bow wood, for many categories of how we measure bow wood, especially in the mechanical properties of wood category.

I just think that when it comes to the "King", across many categories its hard to argue that anything beats Yew wood for making bows.  The only place yew wood loses is (1) easily available and (2) using your bow as a baseball bat.

Per unit mass, Yew tends to have higher elastic strength than Osage, while rupture strength and crushing strength are basically a wash per unit mass between them.

Gabe