Getting bored of failing...

[WillS]

Every one of these replies has been helpful and appreciated - can't go through each and reply individually but I really do take on board everything that's been said!

There is one thing that's been knocking around in my head for a while though, having failed so often at making ash into the classic ELB shape (and seeing so many people succeed using ash with this narrow, deep design)

In my mind, an English longbow should be simple.  They were produced in their thousands for warfare, there are no laminations or setback handles etc.  They've been recorded having been made from yew (obviously) but also ash and elm etc.  It seems almost backwards to me that it's easier to make a more complicated design with narrow handles, changing taper limbs and so on. 

I've read quite a few online guides about making ash longbows, and seen numerous bowyers make them with apparent ease.  The first thing I ever read about making a longbow was the Backstreet Bowyer webpage, where Alan Blackham spoke about his success with ash using a simple long, narrow design and getting bows up to 120#.  I think this is one of the reasons I feel so lost, as using a successful design on the same species of wood just isn't working.

[paulsemp]

One of the best things I learned is to stop and walk away from a bow when you start questioning your next move. If you get a few going in different stages, you a less likely to rush a mistake. Just stop and go to a different project. I have ruined a lot of good wood trying to force a bow out of it. I have better luck making a bow over a period of time.

[okie64]

One of the best things I learned is to stop and walk away from a bow when you start questioning your next move. If you get a few going in different stages, you a less likely to rush a mistake. Just stop and go to a different project. I have ruined a lot of good wood trying to force a bow out of it. I have better luck making a bow over a period of time.

Agreed. I keep lots of staves at different stages, if I get frustrated with a certain part of the process such as tillering out a character stave ,  I stop and chase rings, split some logs, glue tips on or anything to get my mind off of it. Bowmaking is a very challenging hobby and thats part of what makes it so much fun and so addictive at the same time. My first two attempts at selfbows were ash, the first one broke after about 50 shots and the second survived but took a huge amount of set. Osage, hackberry or hickory would be a much better choice for you if you have access to any of them. Good Luck and dont give up

[Zion]

Don't worry, having a breaking streak i'm sure has happened to all of us. What usually breaks bows is being rushed and cocky, but there's many other factors ass well. Just go slow, pay attention to the details and you'll get a shooter soon enough!

[bow101]

I broke 3, they were all laminated which took a lot of time to put together. My biggest problem was not tillering the proper way,  TaKE 'ER Slow And Steady I was to hasty. Now I'am doing simple board bows to get the hang of tillering and limb shaping. Not much invovled with that, just go to Home Depot and pick up some Red Oak. $10.00 for a 1x2 @ 6 feet long.
I feel your agony, going through all that labour working a stave and having failure after failure....hang in there.

[steve b.]

WillS,

I have no experience with either ash or a long, narrow longbow.  But I feel like right now I could easily make one.  All I'd want to know is the properties of ash and I'd go at it.  I'd just want to know if ash is strong in compression/tension.

If I wanted a a radiused belly, for whatever reason, and not having any experience, I would go with a small radius and build the bow.  If the bow was successful I'd build another with more radius and maybe I'd make it a little heavier.  But I would know after the second bow if the radius would work with ash.

But I gained my skill and confidence from flatbows.

[Matt Heppe]

Hi Will,

Have you thought about doing a couple of board bows? Jawge and Poor Folk Bows have some nice intro bows. They are easier to start with and great for learning tillering. I really like the two I made and while the first came out light @30#, the second one hit my target weight at #45.

I just made an ash longbow (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34764.0.html) and took a middle ground between a board and a stave. I found a nice 3"x3"x8' Ash post at a local sawmill and treated it like a stave (chasing a growth ring). I have a few more bows in the pipeline (including one for the red oak bow trade) before I break out my first true stave. I have some persimmon and black walnut that should be dry enough by February.

Best of luck,
Matt

[ionicmuffin]

Thats a good point Matt. Its much better to spend 100$ on boards and ruin 10/15 bows than to spend tons on staves(500$+) or trade a ton of stuff and get the same results. Board bows can be less desirable, but if planned well and worked carefully they will really work out well!

[paulsemp]

 Board bows can be less desirable, but if planned well and worked carefully they will really work out well!
[/quote]
IMO there is no shame in a board bow. You can chase a ring just like a stave and most could not tell the difference. If primitive man could walk into a lumber yard and get some wood, I bet he would.

[Weylin]

That being said about board bows, the truth about staves is that they are even cheaper, the only down side is a little work and some patience to let them season. If you cut your own staves you get the best of both worlds.

[bubby]

there is nothing less desireable about a board bow, heck that's what a laminated bow is, all a board is is a decrowned stave and they make some killer bows, that said, do 4 thing's, dont give up, dont work on one pissed off, ask questions, there's no stupid ?, just stupid answers, and build a tillering gizzmo, you'll find it at the top of the how to page, bub

[ionicmuffin]

I only meant that to me a board bow is less cool looking, its not as aesthetically pleasing to me as a stave bow is. To me, with the exception of laminates and some well made board bows, they are less desirable to me. I guess its true that boards are just as good, ive made a few and i think they work well. I do think i will continue with board bows because they are much easier to tiller than stave bows, and because they are able to be cut out on the band saw to thickness and shape within a few hrs. I like being able to make several in a relatively short amount of time just because i have so many i would like to make for people who would really enjoy them. As i progress through bow-making i will begin to stockpile staves by the wagon, so eventually i wont need to go buy boards unless i am going to make one for a board bow trade or something. I honestly have so many BL trees on my property all of which could yield about 10 staves per smaller tree and maybe 20 for the bigger ones. Anyway, i do believe that if you go on a bowbreaking streak that you would be rather tired of it and want to give up, and of course you will never get better and wont progress the way you want to if you give up.

[Del the cat]

I was going to stay off this thread as most of it has already been said, but I thought I'd just try to offer a few words on ELBs and Ash.
An ELB seems like it should be easy, but like most of bow making it's deceptive and easy to get lured into trying for too much draw weight from too short a bow. Some people have success with Ash but many have a lot of failures before getting it right.
Some of the best results seem to be with the grain running back to belly rather than across the back, also I think heat tempering of the belly and or trapping the back (or at least a squareish cross section) is required.
Personally I don't much like Ash, I find working it is hard on my elbows and it seems to take a lot of set.
Most of bow making is simply patience and getting your eye in so you can see slight errors in the curve before they accumulate. When in doubt stop, measure the thickness every few inches, but more important use your fingers and eyes. When in doubt stop think ask look feel walk away.
We all screw up... dunno if you saw my last ELB... gorgeous, then it folded in half... yeah I was down, felt like I'd been kicked in the guts, but I'm learning from it and making the repair.
At the end of the day, you only have to please yourself, it's not a competition, don't be too hard on yourself. Take a break, make some fun stuff, tie a couple of Hazel branches with their thicker ends together and put a string on 'em, mess about a bit try to get your feel and your eye in tune.
Once you get one good one you will wonder what the problem was! Trust me, it's mostly about eye, patience and knowing when to quit for the day.
Good luck
Del

[lesken2011]

I am always hesitant to add my 2 cents on posts like these because of my limited experience. I have only been making bows for about a year and made about 15, so far. I probably have about a 50% success rate and all have been from boards. My first few were unbacked bows from the HD or Lowes red oak wood. Since then I have worked mostly with backed bows and used woods such as hickory, white oak, ipe, osage, and bullet wood. All have been more of a flat bow design than elb from pyramids to mollegabets. While I know there is value in longevity to a single growth ring back, I have seen many fine bows in person, on this site and others made from boards. I intend to eventually tackle "staves" ( I have some crepe myrtle and osage), but don't feel like I am ready to deal with some of the difficulties you run into with most staves I have seen as most are not completely straight. I am still dealing with basic tillering. I think I am glad I didn't start with staves or I'm afraid I might have been discouraged early on and not made it as far as I have. I would be glad to talk to you about it, if you like. PM me and I'll send you my contact info and I'll give you the details on my successes and failures if you think you might like to try a different direction.

[WillS]

Can't thank you all enough!

I think my next step is to go for an ash flatbow, keeping it as simple and lightweight as possible.  I'll leave the ELB designs for the yew I've got seasoning until I feel comfortable enough reading a stave and suiting design variations to different wood.

For what its worth, I wasn't a bit fan of board bows until I realised how time consuming and eclectic a stave bow was.  I used to think staves were "TRUE" bows, but then having messed up so many, my desire to have a working bow outdid the desire to feel like a primitive/paleo bowyer.  I felt the same way about laminated bows as well, but im being drawn to them more now.