The Four Horsemen (bows)

[RyanY]

I see questions asked a lot about what type of bow has the best performance. Having been asked that myself, I can't honestly answer and here's why. While I've made lots of bows of all kinds, they all vary in wood species, draw weight, draw length, and dimensions. Because of this, there are too many variables for me to judge on design alone. What I propose is some self experimentation to anyone who's interested, including me. Get a tree that can easily yield (at least) 4 identical staves, and make four bows of different designs at the same draw weight, draw length, and overall length and compare them. I think the three given designs would be a D bow, a pyramid bow, and a bow with a parallel limb width for an elliptically tillered bow. The fourth could be a molly, holmegaard, or some other type of straight stave design. What is most important for this will be keeping the variables to a minimum. The given standards would be length, draw weight, and draw length, but I think handle length and tip width should be included as well. Also building techniques such as heat treating would mean adding the same amount of reflex to each bow. My understanding of bow design and performance leads me to believe that any well designed bow will have similar performance although advanced designs like the andamann/holmegaard design will edge out others in efficiency. I think it would be interesting to see how this would turn out for me as well as anyone else who would try. Food for thought and a good excuse to make 4 bows! 

[Eastman]

That's something I'd like to try when I get the chance  

"good excuse to make 4 bows!  "

[PatM]

Settle for a 64 inch length and put a fifth bow in there as well. A recurve of course.

[blackhawk]

Awe man..I'm dissapointed....I was expecting to see 4 new bows and some serious bow porn....lol 

Sounds like a good project for a single man in his early twenties with no kids....or a maniacal bowyers such as myself....hey,you fit that description Ryan..so have at it...no reason why ya shouldn't have all 4 done before sundown

What about a static recurve,or a R/D bow. Sounds like you need a bigger tree and a tree that is perfectly straight with no lean..i.e tension n compression wood. Tension side might yield better wood.

[Holten101]

Like blackhawk i was expecting something naughty;-)

I am definatly up for this "challenge", but its gonna be long term....the tree I have in mind is still very much alive. And to get 4 staves will take some luck and good wedge work.

I will remember this thread:-)

cheers

[autologus]

Do it with boards, this will give similar consistency.  You would have to try to find 4 with similar grain width and orientation but it would probably be easier to do since this would be an academic endeavor and not just a test of the bowyers skills.

Grady

[RyanY]

Sorry about the misleading title! I see no reason why a recurve and R/D bow couldn't be added although for ease of construction I'll probably stick to the straight designs and assume all others are slower. 

autologus, Side by side staves from a single tree are going to be far more consistent than boards unless cut from the same board but it should still be done with boards if that's whats available. Just have to make notes about each board's grain, and density.

Blackhawk, Definitely important to get a very straight tree to avoid that. Good point. If I can find a tree to cut they'll be done by the end of the week! 

PatM, I'd probably go with 66" but I think the point of this is that everyone is able to choose what they want and put the bows against each other. If we want to try and make a standard for everyone to reach that could be fun too.

[warpath]

What a rip off!!!! I was hoping to see some post-apocolyptic style bows here!!    It sounds like a good idea though. Maybe over the winter months I'll be giving this a try.

  G

[soy]

I have difficulty making 1 bow the way I intend to make it let alone 4 different styles of the same stats so I'm not in on this 1 but I'll be eager to see what the results are

[bambule]

My personal style for a bow is a Flatbow, 66" - 69" long for drawlenght up to 30" and lbs to 65#. Mostly 1,5 - 2 wide depends on stave and lbs to middle of limbs and then tapering down to 5/16" eiffeld tips. This is for me the best middelway for a fast and durable bow.
Most heattreating and flippin´the tips, stiff handle. Shorter bows, 58" - 63" in the same manner are often faster but not enough accurate for targetshooting with lighter arrows. Fast shooting is also fast shooting off target :-).
I`ve build lots of bows in this design and in their specifications they are mostly the same.
But maybe you experimence will change my view - who knows?

Greetz
Cord

[RyanY]

Maybe I need to change the title. Ha. I'm planning on trying to get some staves today. Will show and tell if I do and maybe continue this thread as a light build along? Bow specs, occasional pics...

soy, DO IT! It'll be a great learning experience. Post in the form of a build along so we can help along the way.

bambule, We actually know that shorter bows shoot slower because they store less energy than longer bows. If you've built lots of bows in that one design then why not change it up?

[Dictionary]

  I was looking for porn too.

[bambule]

You´re right about the faster, longer bows. When you use a standard style Ì´m with you but shorter bows in a high performance design and heattreated are sometimes faster - take a look at Marc St. Louis bows. And the semipyramidial design with long stiff eiffeld tips like Möllegabet Bows is in my opinion the fastest design for flatbows.
The Holmegaard design with more bending limbs and shorter stiff tips is for longer bows a good choice.

But you`re also right - change it up is why I´m here and want to go further :-)

Greetz
Cord

[RyanY]

True. But any high performance design will benefit from length due to increased energy storage. Marc St. Louis makes real world bows that shoot incredibly fast. If an increased riser section were added to increase length but the limbs were kept the same, the bow would store more energy but have the same limb mass. I bet one of Marc's high performance reflexed recurves in that style would perhaps be one of the fastest bows possible.

I'm glad we're having these discussions. Its one reason why I love this craft! 

[Holten101]

Personally i would make 2 pyramids...one with trapped back and one without, a leverbow and an Elb (all wych elm). Dang....all these challenges from you Ryan...they will kill me;-).

Cheers