Quick Question

[Dictionary]

I have a quick noob question. Pictures would help greatly, but im currently a poor young man.

I have been having a tough time getting a 64 in hickory bow tillered properly.

The brace height is around 5 inches. The right limb appears whippy at brace while the left limb looks to have a smooth arc. When i remove wood from the right limb's fade and mid limb area to try and balance the limbs, the brace does not really appear to change. This is a straight limbed design, no reflex or deflex.


At 4 inches of brace, when wood is removed, should the braced profile visually change? Or should the bow, after wood is removed be braced a bit higher?

Dumb question, but i am having a difficult time here and felt i should ask to be sure. Pictures would be excellent but dammit i dont have a camera.

[Ifrit617]

Every time you remove wood, exercise the bow so that the wood reveals its true shape. Also increase the brace height some if your close to full draw. I ruined a really nice hickory bow I was working on because I failed to do these to things.

Jon

[steve b.]

If you want to draw your bow and email it to me I will post your drawings here and others can better help you.....?

[Dictionary]

My hickory bow is not exactly like this, more whippy at brace, but if wood is removed at the red circle near the fade, and the brace height is left the same, would the braced profile change without changing the brace height?

[steve b.]

Yes.  stiffness means strength, or excessive wood, so removing it would weaken that area.  The closer to the handle you get the less actual bending you want, whether a stiff or bending handle.

[Dictionary]

Yes.  stiffness means strength, or excessive wood, so removing it would weaken that area.  The closer to the handle you get the less actual bending you want, whether a stiff or bending handle.

of course. I understand those basic principles.

But leaving it at the same brace height, taking wood away from the red stiff areas, would visually even out the braced profile without increasing the brace height correct?



While on this.. The red circle indicates a hinge. If i removed wood away from the hinge towards the tips, this would not even out the braced profile would it? Only if i took away wood towards the handle?

I just want to be sure because it seems no matter how much wood i try and take away from the fades/mid limb of the hickory, the braced profile remains the same. Ive never had this much trouble evening and balancing the limbs at brace.

[steve b.]

I wouldn't worry about brace right now, just fix the tiller, whether its floor tiller, long string, or final brace, or full draw.  With your problems you should see differences in limbs with minor bending, or no bending at all.  The last 5"inches of the limbs should bend not at all, so that is a given.  Hinges are unacceptable so as soon as you see one, pull no further until its fixed, meaning, you have get the hinged limb into a good arc, regardless of how much wood you remove from that limb in the stiffer spots.

When you weaken one limb by removing wood you allow it to bend more.  It bends more because the other limb is pulling on it.  So that good strong limb is going to relax a little when you weaken the other.  Just consider that as you get rid of the hinge--the strong good limb will relax.  And so, yes, your brace will effectively change.  As you fix your problems you will need to increase your brace because you are weakening the bow with your fixes, but don't worry about brace until you can't see your hinges anymore. 

Fix the hinge while watching the other limb.  Correct that good strong limb if its too strong, in order to keep your tiller even as you fix the hinge.  When you see the two limbs getting close to even, then increase your brace to where you want it.  Priority is the hinge, not the brace.

[George Tsoukalas]

I can't follow all of this what with the time change and all. It is time for bed. LOL. But the first thing I would do is fix the hinge. You do so by removing wood from above and below it and leave the hinge alone. You know there are buildalongs on my site. jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

[Dictionary]

steve b im mostly asking this because the braced profile is typically even when i begin tillering the limbs to proper draw weight@draw length but im at 40#@24 inches now and the brace is still a bit uneven although the tiller does not look as uneven as the brace does. This is strange and i wish i could post pics.

There is not necessarily a hinge on my hickory bow, just a flat spot from the handle to near midlimb where it begins to bend toward the tip area at brace. I am thinking i will turn this into a learning experience bow, and begin rasping that flat spot until i notice a change in the braced profile. If there is no change, hell i dont know.

[bubby]

as you remove wood from one side if you start with an even brace hight, the brace will change to a more positive tiller, the brace hight will also get lower, but the hinge need's fixed first and formost, Bub

[steve b.]

Dictionary,
 Sometimes those flat spots, or stiff areas, that you see whilst tillering, are deceptive and causing you to think the limb is not bending when it really is, or isn't.

Some bows are made with one limb longer than the other or it has knots and cracks that cause stiff sections.  That might cause the braced profile or tiller to look uneven, because it is.  And that can be ok or necessary.   If your bow looks crooked at brace but looks great at full draw and it shoots nicely then be happy.
If the braced profile is even but when you come to full draw the tiller is uneven and it shocks the hand at the shot  then you have to chose between the nice brace and the lousy tiller at full draw. 

This is normal learning stuff.  Don't over analyse it.  Go with your instincts and do what you want.  If the bow is a failure or breaks then make another, and then another, and another.  No matter how much you read about it you won't get good unless you build bows.  If you only build bows and don't study the art then you will learn but more slowly.  If you read then build, then read and build, and so on, you will benefit greatly. 
Just step out a bit and go with your gut.

I like to try to make bows from wood that will never be a bow.  By attempting the impossible I learn alot, and its cheaper.

If you need bow wood let me know and I'll send you some.

[Dictionary]

Thanks Steve. 

You are right. The fun is in learning the art.

[lostarrow]

 A couple of things to remember . If the wood isn't dry enough, the tiller is going to look different nearly every time you string it. Another thing ,depending on how you brace your bow , you will put uneven stresses on the limbs, so it may look wrong until you exercise the limbs several times as mentioned above.If you use a tillering stick, make sure it braces in the same place on the bow every time and that the string is set in the notch where you would be drawing with your fingers. It doesn't take much to shift it one way or the other and totally throw off your perception of tiller. It seems that the lighter the bow ,the more these small things effect in a big way. I like to keep the weight just above the final target and shoot several arrows through it before I look at the tiller one last time. I find this gets the wood to where it really wants to be, before I cast judgement on the  final tiller. (This step is at the very end ,  when bringing down the draw weight for the desired draw length. I don't bring it to full draw, just to about 24"  so I don't strain the bow beyond target weight) What tool are you using to tiller?

[Dictionary]

wood rasp.

I guess my main question was if i can see a flat spot at brace, can i rasp the flat spot and changed the brace profile as well as the final tiller.

[lostarrow]

Any wood you remove will change ,not only the brace profile but the profile throughout the draw. It's all connected.