Author Topic: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?  (Read 7460 times)

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Offline Shiloh

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A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« on: September 18, 2012, 01:21:47 am »
Hey everyone, I'm still a newbie to the boards but I couldn't wait to dive into the warbow/ELB section of the forums. A little run-down on myself: I've been fascinated with the english longbow/warbow for almost a year now after reading Bernard Cornwell's "Grail quest" series, along with his other work "Agincourt". Being a history buff of everything from World War 2 to the Roman army, I fell in love with the idea of the English Longbowman.

So when I started making bows a couple of years back, immediatly I had the desire to make a true english longbow. But the problem I always encountered was a lack of quality bow-wood. I live in the suburbs, with all the immediate forest in my area being federally protected wetland. So far I've been stuck with red oak boards and the occasional maple stave from the lumberyard. But now I really want to take it up a notch.

I know that pacific yew grows in my part of the state, but unfortunately (right now, at least) I'm not in a position where I can put the time, money, and effort into drying and working a full-sized yew stave. So after doing some research I stumbled onto the laminated bow. It seemed like the most economical idea  for my situation, so I decided to give it a shot. But before I go any further, there's a number of questions I was hoping to get answered.

1. I don't have any experience with heavy-weight bows, the most I've ever drawn being a 70# compound (Just once, mind you. I didn't sacrifice ALL my primitive roots :laugh: ) Mostly I shoot bows in the 40# to 55# range. Would starting with a bow that draws 60# @ 28" and around 70# @ 32" be a reasonable start?

2. Taking that into account, what are some basic dimensions I should follow? I'm familiar with the EWBS 3:5 ratio rule, and commonly having such bows be over 74" long. But what about handle size, mid-limb width, tip size, etc?

3. I know this is going to sound a little hokey, but what are some bow quality, lumberyard-available woods I might be able to use that might look something like yew when glued together? I had thought of Osage at first, but none of the mills in my local area have any at all.  :'( I'm probably going to end up staining it, so maybe that could help with the color later on.

4. In terms of the laminations themselves, would I be able to cut them with a table or circular saw? Or would I have to find someone with a bandsaw?

5. Glue: I know this isn't probably an area to skimp on quality, but with a 60# to 70# bow, would I be able to use Titebond 3 to glue up the laminations, or am I going to have to fork over the $30 for Urac?

I know I've got a ton of questions, most of them pretty noobish, but I really appreciate any help you guys can give me. Thanks a bunch!
Warning: I am one of the men the Pharisees warned you about.

Offline }|{opukc

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Offline DarkSoul

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 10:41:45 am »
You could easily make a 70#@28" bow with a red oak board just for training purposes.  It may not be the fastest shooter, but it'll help you in training your muscles and working you way up in drawweight. Since it's still relatively low weight, a cheap and easily available wood like ash or red oak will work just fine.

For a more serious warbow, a laminated bow is good choice. Although many quality bowwoods are often available in urban areas (parks, abandoned places, tree trimmers), it may you some time to figure out which quality species are in your area.

2.) Dimensions are asked over and over and over again. Plenty under the 'search' button. Start by establishing your width, then get close to floor tiller by adjusting the thickness.

3.) It depends on what the lumberyard has available in high enough quality. For a backing, hickory or white oak will work great. (Raw bamboo  also, but most lumberyards won't carry that.) For a belly, ipé, massaranduba, bubinga or jatoba will work.

4.) A high quality table saw will do a MUCH better job at milling flat and even laminations than a bandsaw. Not a hand circular saw, but a table saw. The lams will be a bit rough, so getting them flat and smooth is essential before gluing up. A belt sander is useful for this, but hand sanding works as well.

5.) Titebond 3 is fine for up to 120# or so. However, you MUST be sure to get 100% mating surfaces that are truly flat and smooth without gaps.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Shiloh

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 04:46:36 pm »
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I really do appreciate it.

opukc- Great wealth of information there, thanks for those links. It'll definitely help get me started.

Darksoul- If I backed a red oak board with hickory (not too thick, probably about 3/16" or so) would I be able to get something resembling an ELB? i.e: No glue-on riser, 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" wide at the handle, etc? Or would that put too much stress on the oak?
Warning: I am one of the men the Pharisees warned you about.

Offline fishfinder401

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 05:42:53 pm »
iwouldnt do hickory,but maple i have seen is a good match for red oak in my experiences, and im actually working on a maple backed oak warbow, nothing to havey, but heavy enough to be a warbow
warbows and fishing, what else is there to do?
modern technology only takes you so far, remove electricity and then what

Offline Shiloh

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 08:51:14 pm »
iwouldnt do hickory,but maple i have seen is a good match for red oak in my experiences, and im actually working on a maple backed oak warbow, nothing to havey, but heavy enough to be a warbow

Ahhh, I hadn't thought about maple. I had worried that hickory might overpower the belly, but maple does definitely sound like the better choice.
Warning: I am one of the men the Pharisees warned you about.

Offline fishfinder401

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 09:33:35 pm »
and its allot cheaper and at least near me more readily available
warbows and fishing, what else is there to do?
modern technology only takes you so far, remove electricity and then what

Offline Shiloh

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 05:16:39 pm »
Okay guys, just a couple more quick questions if you don't mind.

-Does a white or red oak belly with a maple backing sound like a good combination?

-I was watching Steve's Stratton's Laminated EWB DVD and I noticed that he used a belt/disc sander (I believe he called it a linnesher, Spellcheck please?) to shape the tips for the horn nocks. But I don't own or have easy access to one. How else could I shape the tips to fit the nocks?

-I had planned on using a set of cabinet scrapers during the tillering process, but for whatever reason all I'm getting out of mine is mostly dust with the occasional small shaving. I had used this video for a guide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3sqDWFAA0s and apparently it's working for this guy, but definitely not for me. Any ideas?

Thanks for the help everyone!
Warning: I am one of the men the Pharisees warned you about.

Offline adb

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 12:00:44 am »
Scrapers need to be sharpened with a burr on the cutting edge, otherwise they're useless. Usually about a 15 degree burr, for aggressive wood removal.

Offline bubby

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 08:06:53 pm »
you can shape the tip's with a rasp, like a 4-1, Bub
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
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Offline Maxspin

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 11:26:21 am »
Shiloh,
I watched the same video for sharpening my cabinet scrapers. Seems to work good for me. I am sure that putting a burr on it would work better but it is quick and easy that way. You do need to hit it again often with the file. I re-sharpen every time I bring the bow back from the tillering tree.

Keith

Offline Shiloh

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 09:22:03 pm »
Thanks guys, I tried using a more aggressive angle when I used a screwdriver to burnish the edge, more to about 15-20 degrees than the previous 5, and it worked out quite a bit better.
Warning: I am one of the men the Pharisees warned you about.

Offline BoltBows

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Re: A beginner's warbow: Where to start?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 07:56:18 am »
Shiloh, Steve told me the wisest thing to do is to begin with 70#, then 80, 90, 100 and then 105, 110, 115 etc. Allthough I think very few people have the patience to build it up like that, (including myself :) ) it is probably the best way. The reason is that your muscles will adopt quite quickly to the heavy drawweights but for example your tendons don't. I know most people will disregard this because it's quite the effort and there are others who did build up very rapidly.
In my opinion it's also a good idea to practise the ''right'' technique with lighter bows. Bet you've seen the EWBS video's on youtube... a great learning place ;)
Good luck!

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