First vine maple stave! (and overall first stave)---[Hinge broke the bow]

[ionicmuffin]

3/4 inch wide at the hinge. Fades are 1 3/8 inch wide, and handle is 1 inch wide.

[SLIMBOB]

To clarify...If you can tiller the hinge out yes, tiller it out.  You never had a problem to start with.  I offered up a solution to a problem...a hinged limb 2-3 inches from the tip, assuming it can't be tillered out without dropping the weight to an unacceptably low number.  As to the tiller profile, you got 2 options with with the end of a bow limb, bendy or stiff.  If bendy, it will be wide, flat and heavy which will rob from the bows cast.   The problem will be compounded by the whip tiller which will shorten the bow at full draw, increase the string angle and add stack weight, further diminishing cast.  If stiff, your tips will be lighter if done correctly, increasing the bows efficiency.  It will be effectively longer and it will have a lower string angle, decreasing stack weight.  All of these are are advantageous qualities.  The only question in my mind then, is can you design a bow, made from VM, 60 inches in length, with stiff outer limbs?  I don't know!  I stated earlier, I have no experience with VM other than second hand info.  It is supposed to be very strong in tension, very elastic and an SG over 60.  My opinion, stiff outer limbs should not be a problem at 60 inches.  I have made countless bows with stiff handles from 48" to 54" range.  Some from lesser wood than VM, and all with stiff outer limbs of some percentage.  The call is yours muffin man.  I simply offer a way to resurrect that stave if it's needed.

[ionicmuffin]

alright, thank you for all your advice. i think that i will see if this stave can be further reduced before i make any drastic mesures like lam and backing it with rawhide. if it does turn out to be a problem and a perm hinge then i will go with some lams, otherwise wish me luck 

[ionicmuffin]

well, its over  she snapped near that hinge after all the reducing i did  oh well, if nothing else i could try for a 15-20 lb kid bow from the left overs.

[SLIMBOB]

Sorry man.  Doubt it will be the last one you break, if you keep at it.  Think about what went wrong and use that info on the next.  Good luck.

[ionicmuffin]

yes, i learned more than i thought. now more than ever i will go ever so slow to make sure i do it right.

[aaron]

bummer- better luck next time!

[ionicmuffin]

I have a sneaking suspension that the bow failed because the MC was too high. I didn't think much of it at first, but the stave had 4 inches of reflex before i started tillering, then all of the sudden it had 1inch. I guess i should have see that as a sign that it was still not dry enough.

[Weylin]

I think it is a mistake to blame the MC for the break. High MC will cause the bow to take a lot of set but it wont make it break. It is common for vine maple bows to start with alot of natural reflex and have much of it pullout during tillering. That's not to say that your wood wasn't too wet or that your design wasn't overstressed but I don't think that's what caused it to hinge and break. I think the clear culprit was a spot that was too thin which caused the hinge and the break. I had nearly the exact same thing happen to me on the only vinemaple bow that I tried to make and I think it was for exactly the same reason. I was getting to aggresive on the dips and wasn't paying enough attention to the overall taper. I think Vinemaplebows has the right advice. He's not saying to ignore the bumps on the back forever only to leave them thick to start with and gently reduce them down to get them working after the bow is braced. If I had done that I probably wouldn't have broken my bow. Vine maple is a little trickier than it first appears between the reflex and the rollercoaster bumps it has some challenges for newer bowyers.

Here's the link to my blown vine maple bow. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,26421.0.html

Good luck on your next one. 

[ionicmuffin]

Thanks for that, it looks like a similar problem. I am getting some hickory soon, and i hear that it can take a TON of abuse before it breaks. The only problem i've been reading about is that if you live in a high humidity area you may be prone to having higher MC and since i live in Washington i think that it may be a small problem.

[Weylin]

It is a consideration. I live in Western Oregon so it's the same deal. I have a hickory bow that has been fine BUT I don't shoot it in the winter when it is damp. So it is a good dry weather back-up bow but I wouldn't consider it for your primary/only all year shooter. If you can keep it somewhere consistently dry inside then it should theoretically be fine. In the time it takes to go out for a day shooting it's not going to take in much moisture with a good finish. It takes day/weeks to significantly change the MC in a sealed bow. But making sure it wasn't soaking up moisture in the house would be the trick. You should give hazelnut a try. it dries as fast as vinemaple but it doesn't have as many tillering challenges. Another good local wood is oceanspray (ironwood). it takes longer to dry (a year or so) and has a tendency to check but it makes a sweet bow. And don't give up on vine maple, it's a really solid bow wood it just has some quirks that we have to figure out.

[ionicmuffin]

I think i will step back from vine maple till i have a few more stave bows under my belt.

[ionicmuffin]

the other thing, you mentioned wood, funny that i only have Black locust and plumb on my property. Other than that ive never seen ironwood, oceanspray, dogwood, ect

[Pappy]

To bad ,but could see it coming,I doubt MC had anything to do with the break,set yes but if the MC was to high it probably kept it from breaking sooner. 
   Pappy