Author Topic: Preparing to build my first  (Read 2894 times)

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Offline Chassit

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Preparing to build my first
« on: August 18, 2012, 01:49:45 pm »
So I am preparing to build my first bow and I am unclear on a few things.  How do I build it to my draw length (27") and how do I determine (or dictate) what the draw weight will be?

I am planning to use a piece of white oak or maple from the lumber yard as they are kinda picky about cutting trees down around here (once I figure out the legal issues about it I will cut a stave for a future bow but for now...).  I will be making it left handed as I can't see out of my right eye and so shoot everything except handguns left handed.

Any advice, pointers thoughts, criticisms, etc are welcome.  Just don't be a jerk about it please.  :)

Thanks in advance.
Danno from Colorado

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Offline lesken2011

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 02:01:17 pm »
I'm gonna chime in since I have been building board bows for about a year and haven't graduated to staves, yet. I also am left eye dominant due to vision problems and, therefore, shoot left handed. My first couple of bows I built for my nephews. They turned out OK and were excellent practice. Both were a Mollegabet design. I wish, now I had made pyramids given the materials. Anyway. hard maple works really good if you can find a piece with really straight grain. I have a white oak in the works, right now, but don't have results to share with you, yet. Hrhodes has made several white oak bows recently from staves with great success which is why I am trying it out in a board fashion. So far it seems much harder than the red oak I used in the past. There are several diagrams available of bows of various designs you can find if you google bow designs. A pyramid would probably be best to start with as it seems to require less complicated tillering skills. I'm not sure what tools you have or what weight bow you are looking to make. You might share that info in subsequent post so that others might be able to help you more.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 02:16:12 pm by lesken2011 »
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline Chassit

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2012, 02:10:22 pm »
Well, I am looking to make my first one a lighter draw (30-40#) for shooting small game and target practice.  I figure if I screw up somehow and it breaks a 30# draw will be less likely to hurt me (or hurt me less severely) than a 60# draw.  As far as tools go, I have files and rasps, a draw knife on the way, a variety of knives, a jigsaw, a circular saw, a router and a good stainless hatchet.  I have worked with red and white oak as well as maple pretty extensively (making other things) and so I have a pretty good idea what to expect as far as the hardness goes.  Of the three woods I picked white oak for aesthetic reasons (I LOVE the way it looks heh, always have).

Anyways, thanks for the quick response and good advice, I do appreciate it.
Danno from Colorado

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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 02:14:34 pm »
Not a lot of jerks around here, buddy.  Mostly me. 

Ok, how to determine draw weight?  Well, what kinda of draw weight are you comfortable with shooting?  As you are tillering out the bow, you are essentially taking your board down from around 400 lbs of draw weight until whatever point you are satisfied with.  Well, that's in a perfect world.  In the real world sometimes you have to be satisfied with an underweight bow that just plain gave you fits during the tillering process!  At least that's MY world!  Your mileage may vary, offer not valid in Rhode Island, need not be present to win.

Now for building to your draw length, you say you shoot a 27" draw length.  Good, that sounds normal for a normal sized human being.  Often we have people making their first bows claiming they draw 31"!!!  Real 31 inch draw lengths are pretty rare...they exist, just not on every block! 

Before we can determine the length of the bow based on draw length, we need to know what style of bow you might have in mind.  For instance if you want the Classic American Flatbow with the narrow unbending handle, wide/flat limbs...well then just double your draw length and add a minimum of 10% for safety.  (27+27+ 5.4 = 59.4...but you can call that 60 inches from nock to nock).  And that is your minimum length, go longer for safety until you become more proficient at making these bows. 

But if you want a bend-thru-the-handle "D" style bow, you can simply double your draw length for a 54 incher.  But again, this is the mkinimum.  Go longer for safety and also find out that longer bows are inheritantly more accurate. 

Spend an evening running around in the Bows section looking at all the different styles and variations on styles of bows.  Then when you have decided on what kind of bow you want to build, FORGET IT!  Seems like everyone wants to build a laminated, highly recurved, Mongolian/Turkish horsebow for their first bow.  Now go back and look at the simple bows.  Simple bows are not easy either, but errors in tillering are easier to see and correct before it blows up on you. 

Left handed?  If you are careful and get the string centered in the handle, it's automatically a left handed bow.  And simultaneously a right handed bow!  And if you make the limbs symetrical, it works upside down, too! 

Just never expect a plain wood bow to stand up for being strung backwards.*

Good luck, and don't be afraid to post pictures!

 

*And there is an exception to this rule as well.  And technically it's not made of wwood, though it is an all natural material. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 02:15:33 pm »
Hmmm, I don't think you'll find any jerks on here. (Damn, that jerk JW beat me to it  ;) )
You normally start with a target draw weight, length to suit your own preference.
E.G I usually go for say 45# at 28"
You then design (guestimate) the bow to suit that.
The other way is you make the bow to suit the stave you have to hand. So if you have a stave that's just 55" long you might go for a 24" draw.
For a first bow I'd say a target of 40# at 28" is reasonable if you the bow long enough.
Even for an experienced bowyer the bow length needs to be about twice the draw length plus 10%. But I'd suggest something like 64-66" is a more sensible measurement for a first bow.
Your first bow will probably end up being 20# rather than 40, but that's ok, if you end up with a shootable bow you will have done well and learned plenty.
The usual way to achieve your target draw weight/ length is to rough aout the bow and then start drawing it back never exceeding the target weight. Assuming you are after 40# it will maybe pull back 6" at 40#. You then thin the limbs and try again, it will then be maybe 8" at 40#. You continue this process until eventually you get back to your 27" at 40#.
Important note:- You start with a string which will just fit onto the bow with it straight. Once the limb tips come back about 6" you fit a shorter string and get the bow braced to maybe 4-5". This change from long string to short string can show a quite dramatic difference in how the bow flexes.
Have a look at my Bowyers Diary, where I blog up what I do, including the failures. (Just google 'Bowyers Diary' or 'Delsbows' to see my website which has some tillering videos on it)
There are plenty of different styles, an ELB (English Longbow will be typically about 72" long which gives a better safety margin, but it has other quirks which take away that advantage (e.g It's narrow)
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Weylin

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 02:25:08 pm »
What JW said.  :) Especially about choosing a design. You should really either do a pyramid style flat bow or a bend through the handle D bow. You'll be very glad you did. Aside from that my biggest advice to you is to find a friendly knowledgeable bowyer in your area and spend some time with them. There's no substitute for it. My first bow is still one of my favorite shooters but I'm pretty sure it would be firewood if i had tried to make it without guidance.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 02:27:02 pm »
Del's blog is NOT a good place to start.  Next thing you know you will be up to your ears in debt buying $250 yew staves and building English Longbows with fancy-schmancy waterbuffalo horn tips that look suspiciously like elf headgear!

Then you will find yourself drinking bottles of fine Montepulciano d'Abruzzo wine while holding up your pinkie finger and other funny Euro-centric affectations!

On the other hand, he did post a video of one of his ELB's blowing up on him.  That's always good for a laugh!

Besides, his puns are generally more witty than mine!   >:D
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline lesken2011

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 02:36:26 pm »
That cracks me up, JW. No offense, Del!! :laugh:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline Chassit

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 02:38:22 pm »
Thanks a million guys, this has given PLENTY to start with here.  I really appreciate all of the help and will definitely keep everyone apprised of my progress.
Danno from Colorado

A tout le monde
A tout mes amis
Je vous aime
Je dois partir

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 02:41:08 pm »
Weylin hit a note I shouldn't have missed.  We have plenty of great people scattered around the world that would be willing to walk you through the process.  Where are you located?

Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2012, 02:51:17 pm »
Del's blog is NOT a good place to start.  Next thing you know you will be up to your ears in debt buying $250 yew staves and building English Longbows with fancy-schmancy waterbuffalo horn tips that look suspiciously like elf headgear!

Then you will find yourself drinking bottles of fine Montepulciano d'Abruzzo wine while holding up your pinkie finger and other funny Euro-centric affectations!

On the other hand, he did post a video of one of his ELB's blowing up on him.  That's always good for a laugh!

Besides, his puns are generally more witty than mine!   >:D
I resemble those remarks!
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline LivingElemental

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2012, 05:53:52 pm »
Please post pictures of your progress. It will help others assist you, should one person catch a potential hinge or crack that you having noticed, and i personally enjoy watching how other people build their bows.

Welcome and Congrats on your new addiction.

Also, if you haven't done so, investing in the bowyers bible series will steer you onto a much learned path. It was incredibly helpful in getting me started off.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 06:04:18 pm by LivingElemental »
Alzamaal illi yadour 'ala qurnayn fakhira, yarja' idhana maqtu'a.

Offline Chassit

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 06:35:44 pm »
I will order one tonight after work, thanks on that Living Elemental
Danno from Colorado

A tout le monde
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Je vous aime
Je dois partir

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 09:02:35 pm »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Bryce

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Re: Preparing to build my first
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 02:20:06 am »
If you have white oak you don't have to worry about it breaking too easily. I've build quite a few from Oregon white. And I've even tried breaking one, pulling a fully tillered #55@25" to 34" and she didn't even squeal. :) very high tension wood. Haven't had the pleasure of breaking one yet :)
Great beginner wood. I'm not sure what kind Of white oak you have, but I'm sure there all (biting my tongue a bit) about the same, besides density and what have you. I'm sure you'll do a great job, happy building!!!

- Bryce
Clatskanie, Oregon