Digging arrowheads.

[StevenT]

I am not trying to start a heated debate, but I have mixed feeling about this. I stumbled across this video while looking at some of the flint knapping videos on youtube. What it looks like is some guys that have found a cave and are digging up arrowheads. They have several videos showing how they are digging this cave up. Although I would definitely keep an arrowhead if I was lucky enough to find one, what I question is how these guys are coming in and destroying any historical value that could be obtained at this site. They aren't just using shovels and picks, in some of the videos they are using heavy equipment. If the link doesn't work, the handle of the poster is flintobsessions and they are digging in a cave they are calling salamander cave, so you should be able to search for the clip. Just wondering how other felt about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrajodyTFEU&list=UUmHxIoYhvZKFHFKX62ZJXbA&index=3&feature=plcp

[JackCrafty]

There are many people debating this "digging" thing and I think it's good.  However, while we are debating, construction crews are tearing up archaeologically important sites every day without documenting anything.  Not a peep.

So, my take on this is that the more we know the better.  Our laws of private property ownership allow us to keep what we find on our land, unless it is human remains or belongs to the city or government (very simplified for our discussion).  Therefore, I think it's a good thing we are seeing these artifacts and that they are being preserved, studied, and reproduced.

There are many sites that are being studied that do not have the funds to proceed quickly and/or thoroughly.  I think we should concentrate our efforts at improving existing scholarly digs without infringing on private property rights, IMO.

Oh yeah, and one more thing, improving existing scholarly digs means improving access to the information without having to pay hundreds of dollars for the data (books for profit) years after it was collected or discovered.  At the present time, "private diggers" are a lot more generous with their discoveries than the "professionals".

OK, that's it.

[soy]

On one hand i agree but on the other how cool would that be to find, And explore !!!

[bowtarist]

Does anyone know what state they are in?  I live pretty close to a salamamder cave here in Bloomington, Indiana, used to cave it all the time.  dpg

[TRACY]

Looks like Missouri.


Tracy

[sadiejane]

there is such a wide range of issues in this topic it is hard to sort it all out. i have known folks on both(or all 3 sides, 4 sides etc etc) who feel strongly in their stance.  there are pros and cons to each part of this debate(and it is a serious debate in the collector vs archaeology community). and i am certainly no expert and know little about it in its vastness...what i do know, is that there are some academic/archaeologists who benefit greatly from supporting laws that prevent "collecting" by individuals. and i am sure many of these professionals do so because of their true belief in what can be learned and what can be lost. but there are others who do not want to lose the funding they get to study and work on site or in their office. many whose entire career/retirement are paid for by such funding. and tho there may be an official "site" designation, many artifacts still end up in private collections. either sold or "collected" by those who are paid to do the studying. many of these artifacts are in fact never studied nor documented if they do not "fit" in current theory. thus are lost to everyone. often buried so deep they will never again see the light of day. no one benefits when this happens and i would venture it happens more than anyone in the profession would admit. often they are classified as "lost" or "stolen"
the one thing i have to disagree with is the argument often used of how few of these sites there are. this continent is covered with these types of sites. there have been peoples on this continent for many thousands of years. more people and for much much longer, i believe, than is currently "proven". these sites exist right under our very feet almost anywhere you are at any time. we walk on the ancestors bones every day. there are hundreds of these "sites" that have been reported and "dismissed" or ignored when no funding can be secured to take it further. or if the site, once more, does not "fit" in current theory. there is hardly an outdoorsy type person i know who cannot tell you of numerous sites they have either witnessed in some way or heard about. have had numerous friends "stumble" upon village sites and camps all over the country when they werent even looking(tho some were most definitely looking). i think there is value in all aspects of this issue. most of those who "collect" have great knowledge and respect of the area and the people who lived there and made/used the tools they find. tho there are certainly some that do it for profit-tho there are only few very rare artifacts that bring the kind of money that would cover a hunters time. some "professionals" care only to the degree they can get paid to spend the next decade "studying". there is no cut and dry here.
and in the end, the site ends up spoiled anyway. all the artifacts are carted away. if you don't put all the artifacts back exactly as they were found, future generations are still in the dark about a site. chances of someone finding the resting place of the material from a specific site at some museum in a thousand years will be non existent.