Hickory/Ipe Glue Up

[Stonedog]

All-

I am getting ready to do my first Ipe backed with Hickory.  I am going for an ELB style bow...."D" cross section.  Now this is going to be a hunting bow, so it does not need to conform the the BLBS rules.....but before I glue up I have a few questions:

1.  I have some URAC, but was thinking of going with TB3.  TB3 would eliminate the need to mix....yeah lazy I know, but I hate mixing glues, but will if necessary.  Does anyone use TB3 for Ipe/Hickory glue ups?  I do de-grease with acteone always.

2.  Since this bow will be hunting weight of 59-61# at 26", do I need to glue on a handle piece?  With my backing and Ipe, it will be about 1" thick at the handle.  My thoughts were to make it 1 1/8" wide for a 4" long handle piece, same witdh for 1" fade out area; then making it 1" thick (front to back) for the handle the 1" fades, then tapering from fades to nock.  If I added a handle piece, I could make it 1 1/8" thick for the handle, tapering to 1" at the fades then taper to nocks after the fades.  Am I making sense? 

I do want it slightly stiff in the handle, as it is a hunting bow.....

Thanks in advance!

[Jesse]

I am no expert but I have read a discussion of this. One guy said Tb3 does not work well with ipe. He had put grooves in the wood prior to gluing and it ripped apart.  Another guy says  TB3 works great on ipe but you should not put the grooves in the wood when using it.  I used recorsinol and put hacksaw blade grooves in both mating surfaces prior to glue up with good results so far. I would use the urac and put hacksaw or toothing plane grooves on all mating surfaces.  As for the design of your bow someone else will have to help  on that.  Good luck                               Jesse

[Justin Snyder]

Cant really tell you on the glue.  What is the length?  You will have more than enough wood for a rigid handle at 1" thick.  If you want a "slightly stiff handle" does that mean you want it to bend some?  If you want it to bend some, I think you will be way less than 1" thick.  If you want it to be completely stiff, add whatever you want to make it comfortable to your hand.  Justin

[Rich Saffold]

TB3 needs a tight tolerance as opposed to epoxy types, urac being in this class of glues where you can have rougher surfaces..I use TB3 all the time, and have never used acetone, but a few times I have rubbed the ipe down with a clean wet rag with some dish soap in it and dried it off.. some ipe is oily, some isn't.

Your dimensions will work.  Usually on a rigid grip elb style I don't bother to build it up unless its asked for..remember if the glued-on handle flexes at all it will probably pop off.

Rich

[Pappy]

I'm just guessing here but I would think if it bends at all in the handle you will have some problem keeping a piece glued on the bottom of the handle stay on at least from my experience you will.
Haven't glued to many handles on but have seen several and if they bend they pop off.Just
something to think about.I am sure someone here that has done several will chime in on this.
   Pappy

[Stonedog]

Justin-

Good questions!

I don't want the handle to bend, period.  I want it to start bending just after the handle area.  So....to answer mine own I should add a Handle piece. 

The bow is going to be 68" NTN.....so about 69" OAL.  From what I unnerstan, with my short draw and target draw weight, this wood combo will be enough to handle it for sure.

[Pat B]

For the glue either will work. With the TB glues you want flat, smooth glue surfaces without grooves. With Urac you want to tooth(groove) both surfaces before glue-up. Urac is a gap filling glue but TB glues are not.
 If you want a bendy handle bow, glue it up as you plan and add shoe leather riser or risers. I usually add a leather filler on the back of the handle area just to make for a more comfortable grip. I have made bows with handle risers on back and belly. This way the leather bends with the bow with no chance of it popping off. For a stiff handle a "power lam" between the belly and back will stiffen up the handle and you can have continuous back and belly wood through the handle area.
 Below is a hickory recurve I made years ago that bends through the bow with leather handle riser, back and belly.       Pat

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[Justin Snyder]

You should only add to the handle if you want extra thickness.  1" thick X 1 1/8" wide Ipe will not bend at 60#. The extra thickness will only be for your comfort.  If you do want to add thickness, I would add a piece at the handle between the Ipe and the backing. Justin

[a finnish native]

otherwise OK, but I would not go hunting with a bow so long. depending on the terrain. maybe when hunting in the plains, but not in the forest. I got quite frustrated with my 60" bow. just as I got on a range for roe deer I lifted the bow and then I hear a knock. the deer heard it also and ran away. my bow scraped into a branch..

[markinengland]

Stonedog,
Ipe/Hickory makes a very strong bow, especially with a little glue induced reflex.
One inch by one inch at the handle will be stiff enough for the weight you want with no exta wood added. I made a 70lb elb of those dimensions at around 68 inches long.
Re glues. If all else fails read the insructions! I don't understand why some people use a glue where the instructions say to get a good close fit, groove it and wonder why it fails, or use a glue that needs a thicker mechanical bond and cramp it up dead tight squeezing all the glue out and wonder why it fails! Either glue will work if you follow the basic instructions. I think Badger has used TB3 a lot on ipe/hockory ok on highly stressed ows. Resorcinol works well on that combination, but you do have to measure it out and mix it which can be so tiring! 
If you want to make dead sire of a stiff handle trap a thin section of Ipe or something at the handle between the ipe and hickory. This little extra thickness will add all the stiffness you need.
Mark in England

[Hillbilly]

otherwise OK, but I would not go hunting with a bow so long. depending on the terrain. maybe when hunting in the plains, but not in the forest.

  I live in some mighty thick woods, crawl on your hands and knees in places type stuff, and I've never had a problem with 60-68" bows. The natives of this area also used long flatbows. The Indians in the Amazon jungle use bows some of which are 7' long.

[mullet]

  Well this thread is on glueing,let me ask one.I just glued up a bamboo backed ipe.I didn't tooth it,but cleaned it with oven cleaner,acetone and soap and water.I used Urac,You think it will stay together?

[Justin Snyder]

otherwise OK, but I would not go hunting with a bow so long. depending on the terrain. maybe when hunting in the plains, but not in the forest.

  I live in some mighty thick woods, crawl on your hands and knees in places type stuff, and I've never had a problem with 60-68" bows. The natives of this area also used long flatbows. The Indians in the Amazon jungle use bows some of which are 7' long.

That isn't even long, barely over average.  Many guys, myself included, hunt in the trees with bows longer than that.  As far as I'm concerned the only place it really matters is if you are using a short blind. 
Mullet, I used smooth on and hide glue on hick backed Ipe shorties, with no toothing, and neither had a problem. Justin

[Rich Saffold]

  Eddie you crack me up! What no buffalo pee on this one?

[Hillbilly]

Was the oven cleaner for good medicine? You'll have to name it "Mr. Clean"