Hickory longbow number 2

[doggonemess]

Greetings again,

I've started another hickory longbow to replace the one that I broke (from my previous post here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,33054.msg436304.html#msg436304). Now that I've learned more patience, this one is going very well.

It's from a kiln dried hickory board purchased at a hardwood dealer. Length is 72 inches. I am tillering it into an English longbow, with a D cross section.

Here are some progress pics, and I plan to add more as it progresses.

From June 26th, at about 3 AM (I was tired so called it a night, I can see the hinge developing):




June 26th, in the 'real' morning, worked out the hinge, got a new one on the other side:


Same time, more draw, but it seems to be coming out nicely:

[DarkSoul]

Please tell me, what do you see yourself? What do you think the tiller looks like? We can tell you exactly what we see, but you'll start learning as soon as you identify and fix tiller problems yourself. Tiller is looking pretty good, not perfect, but I'd like to hear from you what would be your next step.

One word of caution: do NOT cut string grooves into the back of the bow, unless you glue on tip overlays. Since you didn't glue those on, you want the back as pristine as possible. Cutting grooves into the back is not safe because it can rip out a chunk of belly. There's a risk for cracks.

[doggonemess]

To me it looks a little stiff ended (about the last 1/4 of each side) and the left side is too stiff. I'm going to thin the left side a little and do both tips.

Thanks for the recommendation about the string groove - I did not know that. It would be terrible to break the thing due to something like that. I was planning on putting some tips on this bow, as I have bunch of bits of exotic wood now and I can do some cool stuff with it. I'll do that before I do anything else.

[DarkSoul]

I agree that the ends look a bit stiff. But that is supposed to be stiff at this point. You are still on the long string, which will make the tips appear stiffer than they actually are. This has to do with string geometry; a long string applies force to the limbs at a different angle than a short string.
At first, I thought the right limb appeared stiff in that last picture. But then it seems that the bright window is throwing me off. I pasted your pic into MS Paint, where I added an oval along the limbs. I could then see the right limb deflects more than the left limb. So I agree with you; the left limb should be scraped a little. But be careful now; you are getting really close so you have to remove little wood, excersize the limbs after each wood removal, and check tiller often. You are very close to going to the short string; don't stay on this long string for too long now.

What drawweight are you at? And what would be your goal?
Glueing on tip overlays is a good plan. It's not difficult; file the back of the bow at an angle like this and glue on a small piece of wood with superglue, titebond or epoxy.
Hickory can take a D cross section English longbow design, but it will be prone to take set. What you could do to somewhat limit set, is to create a more optimal cross section. Not a true D, but more flat on the belly. Or you could make a more oval cross section, the back and belly with approximately the same crown.

[bubby]

your getting great advice from darksoul, but you have enough tip movement to go to the low brace after you take a few scrapes on the left limb as he said, you will get a better read on your tiller and draw weight with a short string, Bub

[Hrothgar]

Your wife must be gone for the week Like DarkSoul said, by flattening out the profile/stress you can get better results with hickory. Are the limbs going to be the same, or will the top be longer?

[doggonemess]

Thanks for the excellent advice, I started retillering the other day for an oval cross-section. Right before I did that, I was working the limbs and a splinter lifted on one side. After planing it away, another tried to lift. Then I saw the wisdom of the advice firsthand! After changing to an oval design, no more splinters.

I used the wrong blade length on the plane an some point, and took too much off the center. I have a habit of getting over-excited at this point and messing it up. I am slowing down now, and evaluating.

I did glue on some tips. I used the lightest piece of wood I had, which was African Mahogany. It's slightly darker, and should make a nice contrast. The tips I shaped into a kind of 'shoe' shape, and they work great. To attached them, I decided on JB Weld. They're never coming off, I'll tell you that for sure.

Now, I'm just going slow, and trying to round it out again. It's taking a hinge in the center, which I've never, ever seen before. Usually, I get a hinge midlimb, now they're too stiff and there's a big hinge with lots of set in the handle area. I'm going to work out from above and below and get this thing back to normal.

As for the weight, I was shooting for 60 lbs, but the modifications have taken it down. It's at about 40 lbs now, which isn't bad, and it's pleasant to shoot.

[toomanyknots]

One word of caution: do NOT cut string grooves into the back of the bow, unless you glue on tip overlays.

I just can't put validity with this claim, however widely excepted and practiced, or even logical it may seem. I have used cut through the back nocks on many many many bows. On every longbow I make I use cut through the back nocks at some point, even on warbows, at the least to get the bow tillered before installing the horn nocks. Alot of times I will just keep them. On bows made from staves, as well as board bows. I never have problems, it just doesn't happen. I think this has been over blown in my experience. I do understand that is commen sense, but it just isn't true for me. I make considerably heavy bows with cut through the back nocks. I shoot these bows with cut through the back nocks before I put the horn nocks on. Once I made a hackberry flatbow that was 90# @ 26", so most likely was over 100# @ the 28" I was shooting it, and was only 70" long at the most, I wanna say 68" nock to nock. That bow had cut through the back nocks. No problems. If anything I think that, on heavier bows it is obviously not a good idea or a compliment to a heavy bow to give it cut through the back nocks, but I learned to make bows before anyone told me not to do certain things. Like cut through the back horn nocks. And it has been working for me for a while. If anything, on a 50# - 60# bow I would say if you make sure to add a small sinew or strong thread wrap under the nock to deter any de-lamination, then there is absolutely no problem with them... This is based on my experience and obviously not the logical assumption, or else I would never argue for cutting the back of any bow for any reason.     

Like DarkSoul said, by flattening out the profile/stress you can get better results with hickory.

I noticed this about your cross section too. I agree and think that most woods can be treated like this with good results. Least it works for me. I find it is harder to tiller when your cross section is as wide as it is deep. It is easier to tiller when your cross section is a more traditional 5/8th's rule d section. Or maybe even breaking that rule by being just a smudge heavy on the wideth in the middle sometimes (just not telling anybody,  ).

[Del the cat]

Lookin' pretty good, time for the short string.
Del

[George Tsoukalas]

Get more movement mid limb on both limbs. Jawge