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Author Topic: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...  (Read 6367 times)

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Offline toomanyknots

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Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« on: June 25, 2012, 04:16:10 pm »
Well I have been working on another sapwood backed osage longbow lately. This is the first bow I am making from the osage staves I have harvested this spring. It has been seasoning for a good while now, at less than an inch thickness at the widest/thickest point probably since early april, and I have been hot boxing it in my van in the sun lately since it has been up in the nineties. I don't think I should do that anymore though, as it started to warp and check a bit, it gets real hot in that van too. What is nice about this piece is it has about 4 5/8" natural reflex, and doesn't wanna give up even a tiny bit of it. ;D





One limb is more reflexed than the other, that limb is destined to be weaker than the other limb, so naturally it is designated as the upper limb that will have the 2 nocks. Here you can see how one limb is more reflexed:



The tips are already too thin to put any horn nocks on them from the kind you order online, and I have never made my own, so I have decided this bow is either going to get pet store antler tip overlay nocks or selfnocks with a linen thread wrap under the nock to deter the nocks from breaking/splitting. And I was trying to keep the tips thick. The bow feels like a 70 - 60 pound bow still, I hope it comes around 60 pounds when done and no less. It's about 70" tip to tip right now, and for osage, feels surprisingly light. This bow being a longbow and being so relfexed, it has been about impossible to tiller on the tree so far, so I have decided to use a mirror which is working pretty well on the short string:





Thanks for looking!



« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 08:51:56 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Pappy

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 07:42:23 am »
Lots of reflex,never done Osage with sap wood,I know some here have so it should work,only advice I can give you is on a highly re flexed stave it is very easy to come in under weight,it will trick you into thinking it is heavy because of the early draw weight,and hard to get the first low brace,when you think it is about right it will be way to light,get a string on it early.Good luck and keep us updated. ;) :) :)
   Pappy
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 01:55:42 pm »
Thank you for the good advice Pappy. Although I got it in my head that the early draw weight can make a light bow, I can never seem to apply it, just from all my old habits of floor tillering. You were correct though, as this bow definitely came in under weight! I am especially bad about this with sinewed bows,  ;D. As well as my desire to be able to get the thing on my tiller tree without flipping over. Which I just wasn't able to do with this one, had to tiller it on a short string using a mirror until I could brace it. And even then, the mirror worked so much better then the tree, I might just have to use it from now on! I went straight from the long string, to brace, to shooting. No tillering after brace at all. None. (..yet, anyway, ;D) It feels about 45# - 50#. Probably less cause I have been outta shape, but it holds about 2" reflex right after unbracing. The cross section is a bit weird. In fact the entire bow is weird. It is far from straight profiled. The cross section is an oval in the center, but the bow twists, so it is a sideways oval? The string hits my arm every single time I shoot, now matter what. LOL Here are some (crappy) pics:





I guess I could get the middle bending a bit, which I probably won't. If I pull to 30" it will bend a bit in the middle, but the problem is I only pull to about 27" anymore. I need to work on getting my longbows to bend in the middle. Whips an arrow out though. I could pick a lock with the darn tips they are so narrow. Last time I made an osage longbow, they were alot fatter, but that bow wasn't reflexed. The bottom looks like it's hinging a bit, but I can't tell for sure. I am in the process of sanding it right now, after I sand it I will check tiller one more time to make sure it is not hinging, maybe shoot it in for a while to try to bring out any tiller problems, I can't tell to much with this one because it twists and has such a weird cross section. Some times I wing it, and this time it has come back to bite me.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 02:10:37 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 03:18:43 pm »
One more pic. I guess the tips are not that small. Smaller then I usually make them though. Yes those are "threw the back" self nocks. (*ducks and prepares for dozens of tomatos and rocks to come flying at me*,  O:)). The tips are mostly sapwood, so I would think if it was an all heartwood bow, I could of got alot smaller tips.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 03:24:02 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 08:45:42 pm »
I figured I  would finally post a good full draw picture of this bow... especially since I figured out I could get better fulldraw pictures in my kitchen,  >:D. The bow came in at 45# @ 30". It ended up holding 2 3/4" to 2 1/2" of natural reflex. It's about 30" in these pictures, (which is a warbow sized draw for my puny self,  ;D.):





« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 08:50:08 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Josh Wilson

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 08:50:20 pm »
Very nice!!
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blackhawk

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 09:06:11 pm »
How much heartwood did you keep? Ratio of sapwood to heartwood? Too bad ya couldn't keep it a higher weight to keep more heartwood,and to see the longevity of a higher poundage sapwood osage elb. Just curious cus I have sapwood osage elb nearing completion and I'm trying to maintain it being no less than 70 pounds. Leaving sapwood goes against all my osage morals,but I had no choice with this stave and I never personally have done it so I can't speak from experience. So this stave gave me a good reason to try it.

Do you think you'll try another sapwood osage elb but a higher poundage? I only remember one person ever making  a high poundage one and that was Daniel(nidrnir) over on pp.
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Offline lesken2011

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 09:55:13 pm »
Looks like it turned out pretty good to me!!
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For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 10:14:22 pm »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

blackhawk

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 10:43:32 pm »
Oh yeah..I forgot about honeysuckles..whatever happened to him? Anyways...I see sapwood bows(other styles as well) but I never hear the real end of the story with em and how long they last,and how many Arras. I agree sapwood works if the stave was treated right and sound,but the heartwood is better. But the contrast of the sapwood on looks cool. I have mine down to 70@24" on a tight long string,and its looking good. I did chase the first sapwood ring off on mine. Is yours the first ring under the bark? I could feel and see a big difference between that first one under the bark and the second one down. I think that's where it got a bad rap is because that first ring is usually pretty crappy(not all the time,but in most staves Ive chased rings on). And the ole timers seasoned there wood in outdoor settings for years where it wood be way more prone to decay.
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 11:17:41 pm »
I always use the first ring.  If I was gonna chase a ring at all, I would just go straight to the heartwood. If anything, I have found the sapwood more tension strong than the heartwood. I have cut right threw knots accidentally on sapwood, went ahead with the build anyhow, and still had the bow hold together. Where as if it were heartwood, I am not too sure it would of made it to brace. IMO
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

blackhawk

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 11:47:58 pm »
I've seen a few heartwood bows that were violated worse than someone trying to chase a yew ring..no exaggeration. Heavily violated heartwood rings,yet have shot oodles of arrows(not by me tho).. that gives me the heebeegeebeez..lol. I think osage is alot tougher than most think and give credit for,and the back can be nicked,n have tear outs and hold up just fine in some circumstances as well. But ya never know..but what we do both know is that osage kicks butt. And that we as bowyers need to be able to read and discern each piece of wood cus no two are the same. You must've had pretty good sapwood then on the wood you harvested,which I have seen as well on the first ring.
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Offline simson

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Re: Another sapwood backed osage longbow...
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 07:27:10 am »
I don't see any reason using sap on osage, except the stave is only a small diameter sapling. Seeing the scraps of good heartwood in your first pics, I think you could better do when here are laying the sapwood scraps.
If you have problems to chase a heartwood ring, you should prove your tools. My experience: I do this work with a very thick blade drawknive (it what a mess finding it, I have a bulk of drawknives tested - now laying in a corner), and a curvy scraper for knots and valleys. With this two tools is last not more than 30-40 min per stave. I think it is worth to invest half an hour ...

Anyway you made a great looking bow and tiller is very fine.

simson
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Simon
Bavaria, Germany
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