Author Topic: A note on fitting forged heads.  (Read 8820 times)

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Rod

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A note on fitting forged heads.
« on: September 07, 2007, 01:33:20 pm »
I would not wish to discourage those who are experimenting with making their own heads, but the standard towards which they should be directing their efforts should be to make a rolled cone of quite uniform dimensions and then to finish and fit to the shaft such that the ferrule is flush to the shaft, it's base resting firmly upon a "shoulder" in the shaft.
The cone of the shaft should fit the shaft as fully as possible and without voids in the tip.
Mark Stretton has demonstrated that a shaft with a void in the tip of the ferrule is likely to be less efficient
in penetration since the shock of impact is likely to loosen the head from the shaft.
It is an ongoing bone of contention between myself and Hector that I have a go at him when I consider the ferrules of his points to be too irregular.
I have often speculated as to the possibilty of forming the rolled cone on a standard mandrel so as to facilitate some uniformity of fit.
I daresay that in the day production standards varied somewhat, as they do now, but I am equally sure that the better marksmen were more picky than the run of the mill fellows when it came to selecting their gear for more critical work, though of course, for barrage fire, where the priority was on rate of fire and holding to a distance then unsorted sheaf arrows would be used without any opportunity of selection, other than by the maker or by inspection upon delivery.

Rod.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 01:36:20 pm by Rod »

SimonUK

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 09:04:42 pm »
It's very tricky filing down the taper to fit exactly.

I've been wondering whether it's possible to put some kind of black dust inside the ferrule, tip it out again then insert the tapered shaft. The dust should appear on the wood at the sites where it needs to be filed some more.

MattE

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2007, 09:05:33 am »
Simon, you can use the powder to show where to remove material for a perfect fit but I see quite a lot of work with this method. I would think the use of a mandrel for uniformity of the taper would be best. If heated to the right temperature and the use of flux , the seam can be hammer welded to eliminate any spreading on impact.Another option is to braze the joint.
I haven't actually made heads like this, this is only a theory.

Rod

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 06:41:25 am »
If I had to make the things day in day out I'm sure that I might take the time to produce a suitable mandrel and this would speed the task of making more uniform fitting heads.
But I have no source of evidence on this subject.
Mark has demonstrated that leaving a void in the tip of the ferrule is counter productive as affecting penetration of a hard surface such as plate.
Given the "hammer drill" nature of penetration of plate I can understand how any weakness in the tip will result in separation.
Rod.

MattE

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 09:23:02 am »
Rod, a void at the base of the shaft would surely spread the ferrule open on impact.I have no proof but I am certain in my mind that a mandrel was used . Man has always been smart and by looking at the sophisticated machinery of the day, this minor problem would have been eliminated rather quickly. Heads were being hammer forged by other cultures.     

SimonUK

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 01:18:11 pm »
Having made a total of 4 terrible quality arrowheads without a mandrel, I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I can see a possible problem with a mandrel - the tip would get bent.

I know mandrels are used, here is one: http://www.englishwarbow.com/arrowhead_0001.wmv but I wonder how sharp the tip can be? After all you are whacking it with a big hammer and it would be too thin to stand that for long. I'd guess they are mainly useful for shaping the ferule towards the opening end.

Rod

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 10:17:30 am »
Mark,
A mandrel could be used to make the ferrule of more precisely uniform dimensions. There is no reason to suppose that the head would be damaged except by careles handling.
In fact one of the ways a head can be trued up is to hold the ferrule on a mandrel and tap the head against a block until it comes into line or make a straightening clamp specific to a type of head and clamp down bringing the head into line.
I doubt that they did more than roll the ferrule onto a mandrel, later sorting out any rejects if they had the time or inclination.
But I guess the better archers might have done the logical thing and selected true heads for accurate shafts, much as a rifle marksman will be more selective about all practical aspects affecting accuracy.
The run of the mill guys would just take the livery issue, perhaps being a little selective, checking the shafts for ones that were worth setting aside, if they had the time or inclination.
But for massed fire in a battle situation you would probably shoot anything that was put in front of you.
Not to say that there were not ongoing administrative issues with quality control which were addressed from time to time.
Rod.

Rod

  • Guest
Re: A note on fitting forged heads.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 10:22:26 am »
Rod, a void at the base of the shaft would surely spread the ferrule open on impact.I have no proof but I am certain in my mind that a mandrel was used . Man has always been smart and by looking at the sophisticated machinery of the day, this minor problem would have been eliminated rather quickly. Heads were being hammer forged by other cultures.     

Matt,
This is exactly what happened in the test Mark made and reported inThe Glade. The impact opened up the ferrule.
Rod.