Author Topic: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)  (Read 4479 times)

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Offline Badger

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Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« on: June 21, 2012, 12:05:45 am »
  I was tillering out a bow today, a short osage with a stiff handle and fade area. Target weight was 75#@24".
  I did my usual floor tillering then braced the bow at a low brace height about 4". I used Erics tillering gizmo to even it up at brace as much as possible pulling it about 10" after every wood removal. Once I got the bow evened out at brace height I moved it to the tillering tree and decided to check the weight and see where the bow would begain breaking down the wood. I pulled it to 6" then 7" then 8" etc carefully recording the weight at each increment. I also would go back and check the 8" mark to see if it had shown any signs of loosing weight just from drawing it. This will let me know when set is just begaining to happen at it's earliest stages. By the time I got to 14" I noticed I had lost about .2 of a pound at the 10" mark from where it was at the begaining. Logic tells me with each new inch I pull it I will loose more weight. I continued up to 19" each time checking to see how much additional weight the bow had lost. By the time I got to 19" I had allready lost 2.3# and the bow was only pulling 50#. With each each further I drew it past the 14" mark it would loose an increasingly large amount. If I would have continued up to 24" I would probably have lost close to 10#. Performance of the bow goes ut the window when more than a couple of pounds is lost. Tomorrow I will finish the bow out, making careful corrections with each additional 1" past 14". I doubt I will get more than 50# out of the bow but it will hopefully be a good shooter.
     I really would recomend trying the scale as you progress your pull from the very begaining, it is really an eye opener.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 05:53:32 pm by Badger »

Offline tattoo dave

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 12:36:58 am »
Good info, thanks badger!!!

Tattoo Dave
Rockford, MI

Offline JonW

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 02:46:02 am »
So why do you think you may end up twenty or so pounds under? Density or lack thereof? M.C. ? I am curious as to your answers cause this happened to me once and I couldn't for the life of me understand why. I never come in light . My wood was Osage as well and I use my scale all the way through tillering. Really bumfuzzled me  ???

Offline Chadwick

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 02:53:18 am »
So, what are you left with?
I bet your bow can still hit 60#, but not much more. Will it lose more weight, ya think?
Michael
Nothing flying, Nothing dying

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 05:56:17 am »
Very informative post, I've never tried doing that.
I'll have to try it on an ELB and see how it looks.
Thanks for posting Badger.
Del
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Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 06:38:40 am »
Ver good point, Steve. I've recently been applying this technique as well. Basically the "no set tillering technique". Draw to a certain drawlength and record drawweight. Pull a few inches further to excersize the limbs, and return to the same drawlength as before. Have you lost drawweight? Then the bow must be taking set.

A friend and I were tillering a black locust bow. The bow had already taken some set (maybe 2 inches) early on in the tillering process. Yet the design appeared in accordance with the drawweight he wanted and the tiller was spot on. He could not tell me where the set came from, but he was worried he would end up with 4 inches of set by the time he reached full drawlength. We put the bow on the tillertree and pulled it to the maximum drawlength he had pulled it to thus far, which was 22" maybe. We accurately recorded weight at the drawlength, using a digital scale. Since the tiller was good, we decided to pull it further, so we excersized the limbs several times up to 24". We returned to the same 22" again (without removing wood) and measured the drawweight again. We lost maybe 0.2 pound. Nothing to worry about, so we pulled it to 26" several times. Again, we measured the drawweight at the inital 22" and we lost about 0.4 pounds. This was a clear indication that the bow was hardly taking more set. So we continued tillering (which was not much) and came at 2" or maybe 2½" of set at a very acceptable drawweight.
We still don't know what caused the initial set up to the 22" mark, but the "no set tillering method" clearly indicated we had nothing to worry about from that point onwards.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Badger

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Re: Tillering Checks
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 10:18:21 am »
      Jon, in this particular case I have more outer limb I can get bending and still come out with a good shooting bow. I built the bow 2" wide which for a short 70# bow should have been enough but in this case wasn't. Might be a bit more moisture in the wood than I thought also. I could probably finish the bow out at 60# but I don't think it would be as crisp as I am looking for so will go ahead and just finish it out at 50#.
      A lot of us including myself go by the rule of never pulling a bow further than what it takes to expose an area that needs work. Using the scale tecnique I don't really have to make any adjustments until the bow shows signs of breaking down, in this case I should have started adjusting tiller at 14" but wanted to measure how fast weight would drop.

Offline Badger

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 06:00:43 pm »
  I went ahead and finished her off at 62#@24" 50" nock to nock. I lost a total of 5# just from drawing the bow which may not be too bad for a short bow, 1st time I have ever measured this on a short bow. My goal was 70#@24" and I was hoping not to loose more than about 3# so I didn't quite hit the target but did a bit better than I was expecting yesterday. Now I will just pretty her up, refine the tips and go shoot some light arrows to see how she does.

Offline Badger

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 06:04:11 pm »
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blackhawk

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 06:18:49 pm »
Thats looking pretty dang sweet to me...nice curve steve. No wonder you were losing the weight and taken a lil more set than you wanted due to the short high stressed design. And those stats are perfect for me  ;)  8)  this makes me wanna go walk downstairs n go make a short osage curve ....two inches wide you said yours was?  ;) think ill go 2 1/4" n monitor my weight n set n go from there.... ;D

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 07:01:35 pm »
62# @ 24" I'll bet she's pretty punchy. Probably jars the old tennis elbow a bit too? (compared with a looooong ELB)
Del
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Offline Badger

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 07:17:36 pm »
  Del, no handshock at all, shot some light 300 grain arrows through it and she behaves very well. I may draw it out to 26" for the flight shoot.

Here is one I am tillering out right now, 5" reflex hope to finish with 3 1/2", will do the no set tiller process as I go, looking for 50# at 28, but may stop at 27"  This is bamboo backed ipe, 66" long

Offline lesken2011

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 07:54:49 pm »
2 nice ones, Badger. I love those sweeping curves on the bbi!
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Kenny from Mississippi, USA

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 07:58:37 pm »
I applaud your effort at tackling a 5" reflexed BBI! I would be certain that would give me horrible limb twisting issues. I hope you get those sorted out and turn it into a screamer.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Badger

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Re: Tillering Checks ( Pics added)
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 08:21:49 pm »
  Dark, I have a fairly high failure rate on this type with the long levers and a lot of reflex. Making it for the flight shoots so if it holds up for a dozen shots thats good enough.