Help and thoughts on layout and design (stave from Hades)

[stubshaft]

About 5 years ago I got bit by the self bow bug (again) and I ordered a stave from "a bowyer with 11 years of experience".  I wasn't too pleased with it when it arrived and numerous calls and emails failed to rectify the issues.  Consequently I put it on the side and haven't touched it since. 

This is not my first self bow build and although I don't claim to be a master at it I do have five other Osage bows that I had built that shoot great and are fun to hunt with.

The stave that I am currently working on is "unique" to say the least.  It is the most lifeless piece of Osage that I have ever seen.  It started out as at 68" but I had to cut 6" off of the end because of 2 knots that ran almost from edge to edge on it.  It's coloration is a drab sickly tan/brown with no hints of yellow or orange in it.  In fact if it wasn't for the end grain structure I wouldn't believe it was Osage at all.  I left the piece that I cut off outside, where it has been for the past three years, and rather than turning a dark rich brown or black, it turned gray.



I just split it to show the coloration of the wood.

My dilemma is that I think that I can still salvage something out of it.  It may be wishful thinking, but I am coming to you all for ideas on what to do next.

I cut most of the crapwood down to a decent ring and have started to chase it.



The first issue is that when the stave was split it was in the shape of a wedge with a sharpish point on the belly side.  A rough layout shows that, where the handle will be will not be a flat are but angled and rather thin.



As you can see there is a knot right in the center of it but that should cause no concern.

The second issue is the location of the two humongous knots near where the handle would be.



This should give you an idea of its location.



There is also another knot running out of the side of the limb a little further up.



There is a slight twist to the stave, which should steam out pretty easily, and the grain has a snakey aspect to it also.



My first thought was to make a "D" bow out of it, but because of its narrow width I don't think I'll have enough to work with.  Due primarily to the angle of the stave in the middle (it is only 1 7/8" wide measured across the back).

Therefore, I am thinking "C" bow or possible a Molly.  I know I'll have to leave those knots a little proud, and am a little concerned about how the will bend because of their nearness to each other (not to mention their godawful size).  I am hoping to get 55# or more out of it, but that may be wishful thinking.

I look forward to your comments and thoughts.

[fishfinder401]

to tell you the truth the first thing i though of with the wood was black locust, i could be wrong but you never know

[stubshaft]

I thought the same thing but the grain structure is indicative of Osage.  Maybe it's a mutant stave...

[fishfinder401]

from what i remember, the locust i have around here has similar grain andi though i heard( probably wrong) that locust and osage are related

[stubshaft]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was BL and they passed it off as Osage.  What type of bow (if any) do you think I should make with this?

[fishfinder401]

bl would make a very good bow from what i have heard, but ill let someone with real life experience with it chime in, also do a search for black locust on here, you should get some ideas that way

[JW_Halverson]

First off, completely forget about the twist.  There's lots of tutorials on here about how to take out twist.  It's mighty easy.  We'll walk you thru that when the time comes.   

It's become a mantra on here that "It don't take much osage to make a bow".  Your stave will prove that maxim.  If you went with 1 1/2 at the fade outs you'd have plenty of wood to make a bow. 

Get the whole stave down to one growth ring, maybe leave a small island of extra wood around each of the pin knot clusters for safety.  Give it a light sanding with 120 grit sandpaper to clean it up a bit, but only sand up and down the stave WITH the grain.  Once you have a clean back, it's easy enough to find the bow limbs in the grain of the wood.  I really think there is a bow in that stave. 

[gstoneberg]

That doesn't look like osage to me.  Real green osage is not as yellow as seasoned osage, but after a year, the heartwood should show pretty bright yellow if you pull up a sliver, hit it with the draw knife or split it.  Osage does eventually fade to gray in the sun, again the older the wood, the more gray it likes to go.  Old fenceposts are usually gray.  Here's what 3 or 4 year old osage looks like that's been stored outside (both split and unsplit):

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6199/6047430173_7959ac0250.jpg

You can see the belly wood has faded to gray.  You can also see the split reveals very bright yellow wood.  I'm not sure what you have, but I don't think it's osage.

George

[JW_Halverson]

Osage or knot osage, that is the question.
Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer
The bows and arrows of outrageous staves
Or to take drawknives to a sea of Mulberry;
And by tillering end them, to shoot, to hunt

Whatever William Spokeshave meant by that bit of doggerel verse, make a bow outa that piece of wood!

[Dclarke]

Yes, but remember that "The Stave oft proclaims the bow." 

[stubshaft]

The twist doesn't concern me much as I have dealt with that in the past.  The only real concern I have is the three bulbous knots in such close proximity to each other.  The other minor one is that the handle will be angled because of how the wood was split.  I have gotten down to one ring and am still contemplating how I will lay it out.  Probably go with a flatbow, but don't think it will make 50#.  Of course it may surprise me and I won't be able to tell until I start to shape it and get a feel of what the limbs want to do.  It will have an unusual look to it because I don't want to violate the knotty area too much and that will result in a bulge in the limb.

[Josh B]

 It looks like mullberry to me.  Use as much width as you can at the fades. 1 1/2" is plenty if you have the length. What draw length are you hoping for?  If 28" or under, you have plenty of length.  Hopefully those gouges around the knot are not as deep as they look.  If they are, you will need to chase another ring.  That will probably cost you alot of width.  Maybe too much.  Clean those up and post more pics.  That will give us an idea what to do next.  As far as the bulbous knots go aesthetically,  I little character never hurt anything if properly worked.  There is a bow there one way or another.  Good luck,    Josh

BTW Fishy, mulberry is related to Osage, locusts are not.  I heard the same thing as you did somewhere, but it just ain't so.

[blackhawk]

Photos can be decieving and not show the true color of what the naked eye sees,but before i read any comments and as soon as i saw the end cut photo it screamed black locust to me. There is one way to know for sure and that is to smell the wood where you make a cut or its shavings. If it smells like a straw bale,or like a loft in a hay barn then you def have black locust. Osage,locust,and mulberry all have there own distinct smells that an experenced woodworker can identify by smell alone blindfolded.

I agree with gun doc about if you are on your chosen ring,cus it looks like ya whacked into it a lil too far and might have to chase another ring. But whatever it is,theres def a bow in there easily.

[kurogane_84]

the stave i was looking at is a living tree and has knots running all the way along it, any advice on that one?