Noob's Very First Bow (Red Oak Board Bow)

[DarkSoul]

I guess tomorrow i'm gonna take an 1/8" off the belly and re-tiller it again.

No, please don't! You have to tiller it - not remove 1/8" of wood from the belly! Tillering is completely different than "removing wood off the belly until you hit the target weight". You have already greatly overstressed the bow by just pulling it to 72 pounds while your targetweight is 50 pounds. NEVER pull beyond your intended drawweight.

Plan of action:
- Mark the the first five inches of both fades (measure 5" away from the handle of each limb and mark that area clearly), to make sure you do not remove any more wood from this area.
- Scrape bothe midlimbs, but the right one more than the left one. The right midlimb is now stiffer than the left limb. Scrape it with a sharp scraper or spokeshave set at very fine curls.
- When the long string tiller looks good at 5" of tip deflection, put a short string on. You're using the long string for too long, if you're not careful. It doesn't matter what the actual drawlength or drawweight is at that point, just get an even tiller at five inches of tip deflection.

By the way, have you rounded all the corners of the limbs?

[Rich H.]

Thanks for the replies hedgeapple and DarkSoul... have a feeling you just saved me from an even bigger screw-up.  That's a neat trick with the ellipse hedge (I'll have to remember that for the future).  OK... off to the garage to get those mid limbs moving.

What is tip deflection (still really new and not up to speed on all the terminology yet)?

One of the issues I had was that I didn't really know how long to tiller on the long string before moving to the short and bracing.  On a typical build when should I move from long to short and full brace?

Yes I did round them lightly with sandpaper before tillering.  I wasn't sure how much to round them though...

[randman]

Tip deflection is how far the tips have moved from the straight limb position. When they have moved 5"  from being straight, it is time to put a short string on. Start with a low brace height and if/when the bend looks good and even, move up to a normal  brace height (approx. 6" depending on bow design/length).

[Rich H.]

Thanks!

[k-hat]

Ya i don't even do long string tiller any more because it's deceiving and nowhere near the type of stresses the bow will experience when actually drawn.  After floor tiller i go straight to a string that lays flat on the belly, that in essence is my only long string.  You'll find the bend/tiller change on you because with the long string the angle of pull is more vertical (on the tree) than horizontal, but when you brace it the pull will be more horizontal than vertical (on the tips) causing the limb to bend MORE past midlimb and less at the fades (whereas the long string makes it bend more at the fades, think 'lever action').  You'll find the weight is different as well.  I slowly work the string shorter as i zero in on tiller approaching brace.  Ideally, by the time you reach brace, the major tiller work is done. 

At any rate, you're looking good for a first build, looks like it should make a nice shooter.   You may have a little extra set, but look at it how Howard Hill did, helps improve the overall performance of the bow (accuracy, handshock, etc)   I had a piece of .80 SG red oak for my first and it was awesome, quite forgiving of my abuse!

Question:  I've never done a pyramid, though it's calling my name, but my understanding is you want the belly perfectly flat with uniform thickness (after the fade of course) and you tiller from the sides?  I may be wrong on that.  Also, it was my understanding you want a circular tiller in each limb, not elliptical, with a pyramid profile (excepting of course the flat part of the handle area).  Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Rich H.]

Question:  I've never done a pyramid, thought it's calling my name, but my understanding is you want the belly perfectly flat with uniform thickness (after the fade of course) and you tiller from the sides?  I may be wrong on that.  Also, it was my understanding you want a circular tiller in each limb, not elliptical, with a pyramid profile (excepting of course the flat part of the handle area).  Correct me if i'm wrong.

Umm.. dunno.. hope someone answers it because if so I am doing it wrong (I'm tillering on the belly).

Anywho, I worked on it some more and tried to get the outer limbs moving a little more.  I got it to a low brace (about 4 inch) and worked it to a draw of 21 inch.  It is pulling 50# @ 21.

Since I previously stressed the bow to over 70# , should I increase my target weight (to say 60#) or keep removing wood until I get to my draw length (28 in.) at 50#?

[k-hat]

looks to me like the right limb is still bending too much at the fade.  How much set do you have right now after unstringing and resting a while?  If it's not much then you're fine.  I imagine if you keep your target weight under that 70# you initially pulled your set really won't increase any more, the damage is pretty much already done.  Keep it to something you can draw comfortably. 

[DarkSoul]

That right limb is still bending too much at the fade. The left one looks better, but is also a bit flat at the midlimb. Still, do not touch both inner limbs near the handle fade. Scrape the midlimbs to gain your last few inches of drawlength. For every five scrape you do on the right limb, do two scrapes on the left limb. Check tiller after every twenty scrapes you do with a scraper. And exercise the limbs after every session of wood removal, but make sure you don't draw past your intended drawweight or -length! I'd still advice you to aim for 50# drawweight.
You're making good progress. Don't rush it now!

[George Tsoukalas]

It is looking good but my 63 year old eyes are having a bit of a time looking at the tiny pictures and I've already enlarged my pages by 2 LOL. Anyway, I long string tiller out to 10 inches looking for bow weight at that and good movement of the limbs. Then I string it. More on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

[k-hat]

Rich here is a quote from another bow thread that may be helpful, i'm sure theres more and TBB has some input, but this is what i found with a quick search and have seen elsewhere:

As for front view profile effecting tiller shape, while they aren't dependent on each other, front view profile will tell you the optimal tiller for best speed. The relationship is that of mass and movement where the less massive parts of a bow move the greatest distance because they are the easiest to move. A pyramid bow with even taper has circular tiller because the mass and width decrease evenly along the limb. A flat bow with limbs full width to mid limb will have elliptical tiller because the inner limbs shouldn't be moving as much because this causes the rest of the mass in the limb to move a greater distance. In the case of the flat bow versus the pyramid, the flat bow has more mass mid limb and that area should not move as far thus creating the elliptical tiller.

Keep moving forward and take it slow and easy, you'll get there

[H Rhodes]

You are at the stage right now where rushing it will ruin it.  Slow way down.  A few scrapes, exercise the limbs thirty times, partially drawing, until the true tiller shape shows.  Spend lots more time looking at it than working on it.  The closer you get, the more the anticipation and excitement builds and you find yourself wanting to just go ahead and pull it to full draw.  Fight that feeling, and keep creeping up to your full draw and target weight.  Oh, and when you get over twenty inches of draw, I wouldn't leave it hung on a notch on your tillering tree more than a few seconds.  I remember breaking a couple of red oak bows that way....   You are doing great!  Stay with it.

[Rich H.]

Thanks for all the encouragement.  I'm really flying blind here, so it's nice to have some pro's giving sage advice.  Off to scrape away.... 

Oh and to answer someone's earlier question it's taken on about an inch of set after that earlier abuse.

[k-hat]

an inch isn't too bad, it's probly all in the first third of the limbs due to the earlier long string stress.  if you can finish with under 1.5 inches you'll be in good shape.  don't hold it drawn any longer than absolutely necessary.  In fact, i would say get that profile as perfect as possible before you pull any farther, then i would do the last 7 inches of tillering in the hand (this will keep you from having to leave it strung on the tree), use a mirror or sliding door to watch'r bend.  You can feel if she's rocking while you draw as well, that will tell you if you need to lighten a limb up a touch. 

Also, i find that at this point (21") you can start shooting at a short draw.  I find that much more effective at making the limbs accept the changes than just exercising.  Scrape, shoot 20 or so arrows thru, check tiller, repeat till she's perfect, then pull a little further.  Mark your arrow for the lengths so you know how far to pull.

[Rich H.]

Thanks for the advice K-hat.  I've got it up to 24" draw keeping it @ 50#.  I guess I'll stop here and maybe shoot it a bit.

However, I do have one problem...I have no arrows.      Guess I need to make 5-10.  Been reading lots of tutorials on arrow making so I'm off to get some arrow-making supplies. 

Oh quick question: when measuring brace height do you measure from the back of the bow, the belly wood, or the handle/riser?

[k-hat]

I measure from the belly of the handle (ie: the deepest part of the grip).  bout 6" should be a good start.  A lot of folks have the brace low enough so the fletchings just clear the handle when the arrow is nocked.  Play around with it once you can shoot some and see what works best for you and the bow.  I certainly wouldn't go much higher than 6".  Never understood the fistmele thing, cuz with my hand that puts brace VERY high, which overstresses the bow. 

If you dont' mind spending a little (ok, not a little) you may find some traditional arrows at an outdoors supply (cabelas, bass pro).  They run about $50 for a dozen, but all they need is tips.  By all means, if you have the time and stuff, make em!!  Only a few cents each then.  Hey, a dollar each is still awesome compared to $4 each!!