A question about laminates

[SimonUK]

I've never made a laminated bow, but I'm thinking of using ash on the back of a yew belly.  I've heard that you can use a 'single growth ring' of hickory/ash/etc for the back of your bow.

My question is, should you scrape the backing down to a single growth ring inside and out? If the wood is a bit wavy, can you still get a nice join between back and belly by clamping it well? Or should you follow a single ring on the back of the ash/hickory but plane the belly side flat, ignoring the rings?

Thanks guys.

[Kegan]

I have heard that you can simply cut a dstraight plank out, as long as it has parallel grains running down it, and the glue will also help this. Like you would find on a board selfbow.

[Justin Snyder]

I prefer the quarter sawn or ring bias for backings. It beats trying to chase a ring on a laminate.  You don't have to chase the ring inside, but you do want to try to keep the thickness fairly even and the glue joint needs two flat surfaces.  Justin

[Pat B]

Simon, I know nothing about ash for backing. I have used hickory and all of it was sawn slats, most were bias grain( from the end, grain looks like this //////).   Pat

[Robinwho]

I prefer the quarter sawn or ring bias for backings. It beats trying to chase a ring on a laminate.  You don't have to chase the ring inside, but you do want to try to keep the thickness fairly even and the glue joint needs two flat surfaces.  Justin

I agree

[SimonUK]

Thanks for the advice guys. If I ever do this, I'll let you know how it went.

Simon

[gpw]

Guys , we're always making backed bows , and whatever we use we always back that with a strong cloth or fiber , Favorite being polyester Camo net ...I Know it's not PRIMITIVE , but we've NEVER had a failure of the backings and the camo bit looks the thing in the woods ..Traditional fibers like Jute or hemp (we use string)would probably be more "primitive " and just as safe...even tried an old silk shirt cut up into limb sized strips(2 layers) ...that worked too and had a cool pattern   ... Backing for the backing ...

[Justin Snyder]

Guys , we're always making backed bows , and whatever we use we always back that with a strong cloth or fiber , Favorite being polyester Camo net ...I Know it's not PRIMITIVE , but we've NEVER had a failure of the backings and the camo bit looks the thing in the woods ..Traditional fibers like Jute or hemp (we use string)would probably be more "primitive " and just as safe...even tried an old silk shirt cut up into limb sized strips(2 layers) ...that worked too and had a cool pattern   ... Backing for the backing ...

Guys on here, myself included, are always building backed bows.  I have used bamboo, silk, and hickory.  I HAVE had failures. There is absolutely no reason to put a cloth fiber over a good wood backing.  Improper tiller or asking to much of the wood will still cause a problem.     If you want a guarantee that you will never have a failure, don't build bows. 

As for non-primitive backings, this is Primitive Archery.  We build primitive and we like it that way.  In fact, that is all that is allowed on this forum.  I'm not going to put down your bows. If  that is what you like, by all means make them. Some really great bowyers on this site even make bows from  fiberglass .  If you choose to that is great for you.  But for purposes of this website, please try to keep it primitive.   Justin

[gpw]

Justin , thanks for the advice ... always want to keep the peace...
 Having built over 60 bows so far , about a third of them broke , most were OK, and a few were real good shooters...We only started using "cloth'' backings for a cheap camo for our customers who wouldn't "spring' for snakeskins ... one guy even brought me a c/net and said that's what he wanted... worked so well , we just kept using it ,never giving a thought that we'd offend anyone .... 
 You're right!!! No backing is necessary , but if you're 2K miles away from home on a hunting trip , that little bit of "insurance" is very comforting ...especially if such Primitive things as eating depends on your hunting skills ...
  If being Primitive is more important here than considering bow building ideas and information exchange, I'll just mosey on over to a more "friendly " group...Thanks , bye !!!

[DanaM]

Sorry to see ya go but yer call. A simple camo pattern can be done with paint or even all natural products
if you want real primitive. And yes sometimes bows fail but that just means you need a back up and
the upside is that you get to build a new bow Also wifey can't complain that you bought a new toy.
Stick around gpw this ain't a bad place to be, now is it?

[Justin Snyder]

GPW, we arent trying to be unfriendly.  If you thought I was, I appologize.   We like to build all natural material bows for this site.  We do allow some exceptions for wood and paint.  If we allow fiberglass backings and things of that nature, it will be just another site.  We encourage you to stick around and share any of your wood bows with us. There are many sites on the web for fiberglass or compounds, as far as I know this is the "only primitive only site."

[gpw]

Justin , sorry , didn't mean to be so harsh , I probably hate fiberglass/modern technology   as much as you guys do , nothing like the feel of real wood in the hand/fresh meat from the campfire ...just that my bowmaking experiments in the past 17 years have taken me down some less primitive streets ...Our local archery shop was always filled with those  darned "compound "shooters... and a handfull of "real archers"... hahahahahaha we'd be over in the corner pounding sinew or making strings and showing off our latest wooden bows ... and they thought we were "primitive"        I'd like to go real primitive and harvest trees with a sharp rock , but there just ain't any rocks in New Orleans , even the real Indians around here (Houma) didn't make bows... primitive here has it's limits ...Since our Archery shop closed , this is about the only place to talk about our favorite things ...wooden  bows  .... will try to stay "on topic" in the future ...

[Justin Snyder]

The NA local to my immediate area were farmers.  I'm sure they had bows, but not like other cultures.  I cant even really trace my bows to any culture anyway.  I do what the NA would have done. I make the best I can with what I have to work with.  We also have trading which was prevalent in all ancient societies.  The NA set rock from out west to as far as the east coast.  I have sent rock to the same regions of the east. In return I have gotten wood and feathers and other items. You can also split staves from trees using deer horn and many other items.  The coolest thing about Primitive is that it is only limited by your imagination.  If a rock is what you need, I can manage a rock.  We also don't discriminate against modern tools if that is what you have access to, and that is what you choose to use.  We only prefer natural materials for bows and backings.  Stick around and let us know how we can help you, we will do what we can.  Justin

[gpw]

Wanna'  trade some mulberry for a sharp rock ?  Got plenty of that !!!  hackberry , pecan , and oak too ... willow for the medicine bag
  Right now using the giant  85 year old bandsaw at the guitar shop, is that primitive enough ? sorry , couldn't help myself ...hahahahaha
 our NA's lived off fish and shellfish mostly ... shell middens everywhere , some quite large ...the new generation having lost all of the old knowledge aren't much help...

 you are so lucky to have rocks , such a simple thing so taken for granted... all we have is Mud, clay and the occasional sharp oyster shell

[Justin Snyder]

I may be lucky to have rocks, but that is all we have. You are lucky to have wood. Send me a PM if you want to work out a trade, but shells can make a sharp tool also.  Justin