Author Topic: Leaving sapwood on osage?  (Read 8929 times)

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Offline Badger

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 08:25:21 am »
   That bow really held its profile Pat, the rings on that look similar to the rings on mine. I iamagine a lot of good straight branches are overlooked that could make nice bows.

Offline crooketarrow

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 11:25:21 am »
  I cut a couple 18, 20 ich osage 20 years ago.Got 31 stves from them one is really thin to close to chase rings. I made unteen bows only useing the first ring. Don't back bows but on the really thin ringer I barnished or left a 1/8" of sap wood on a couple and barnished it also. THIN RINGS STAVES SEAM TO HAVE MORE STRING FOLLOW AND SET THAN BIGGER RING STAVES. I don't see any value of sap wood left on other than makeing the bow bigger.
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
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Offline JonW

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 12:24:14 pm »
well I guess I will open up the proverbial "can" so to speak. IMO set comes from improper tiller. Yes some woods are more prone to it than others, but with that being said. How can the wood undernerath the bark on let's say Elm be better than sapwood on osage. I will take Osage sapwood over any white wood any day. I have seen the properties of correctly cured Osage sapwood and there is nothing wrong with it IMHO

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 01:35:23 pm »
well I guess I will open up the proverbial "can" so to speak. IMO set comes from improper tiller. Yes some woods are more prone to it than others, but with that being said. How can the wood undernerath the bark on let's say Elm be better than sapwood on osage. I will take Osage sapwood over any white wood any day. I have seen the properties of correctly cured Osage sapwood and there is nothing wrong with it IMHO

Uh oh. There it goes. Prepare for the crap storm.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:41:59 pm by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Pat B

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2012, 01:43:33 pm »
I agree with Jon. IMO the sapwood is stronger than many whitewoods, its just not as strong as osage heartwood. I also agree that improper tillering(impatience and overstressing specifiaclly) is probably the main cause of set.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 02:24:39 pm »
Good, Pat. Heartwood is stronger than sapwood because it is denser. When I can I remove the sapwood. Besides one of the joys of using osage for me is watching it change colors. The sapwood won't. Leave it on for cosmetic reasons if you want but know that is NOT the best scenario. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 02:45:38 pm »
I do know that the tension properties of the sapwood are pretty good. I have made some pretty hard working limb osage bows with sapwood backs and haven't had a tension failure, and it is plenty good in that respect. The wood closest to the pith does seem to be darker and more dense though, (and I would just assume from knowing that, that it would be stronger in compression), so I would agree with george that it is not the best scenario. But I would still think a sapwood backed heartwood bellied osage bow would be on top of most other bow woods in compression strength? The one thing that would change my thinking is something that has never really been talked about, which is if the back itself takes set, or "stretch" might be a better word, and not stretch back to the former dimensions/length, than could that cause a bow to have set, even though it is obviously less likely or causative than the belly being crushed? Or might it be a factor to consider at least? I don't know but if I had to guess I would definitely think osage heartwood would have a higher resiliency than osage sapwood. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 03:00:00 pm by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Badger

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2012, 03:25:34 pm »
  I mioght start using the sap wood more often. I finished her up this moring at 77#@28" and no visible set in lower limb and less than 1/2" set in upper limb. Projected mass was 26 1/4 and she came in exactly that. I need to clean her up a bit and add a small build up piece for the handle, she should finish at around 70# once cleaned up. The one next to it is the 62" 62# belly piece that I split off the same stave because of a ring delamination. I will post better pics once I clean it up.

Offline okie64

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2012, 06:15:06 pm »
Glad to see that worked out for ya Steve. I've never tried using the sapwood myself but I know another bowyer who leaves the sapwood on most of his osage bows, he does back them with sinew or rawhide though. How thick did the sapwood end up being on that bow?

Offline Badger

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Re: Leaving sapwood on osage?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2012, 08:37:18 pm »
   Okie it has about 50/50 sapwood to heartwood. Inner limb a bit more heartwood and outer limb a bit more sapwood.