Making a horsebow from wood & bamboo

[Arrowind]

I say go for it.  I have no advice to offer about if it would or wouldn't work....

Here are a couple of cool quotes from Thomas Edison....

Here is what he said when someone told him he had failed 10,000 times at making a light bulb.

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”

Can you imagine breaking 10,000 bows before you made one that worked?  That would be quite an education....ouch.

Lately I feel like eveything I touch breaks but I'm learning and that is a step in the right direction.

You are standing on the edge man....You are thinking and thinking and thinking and researching....

Not that it's a bad thing at all.  I did quite a bit of reading and so on before I started and now I sometimes think I should do more planning but

I get impatient and start then learn along the way. 

At some point you just need to jump in and start....

Here's another quote from good ole Tom.

“If we all did the things we are capable of, we would astound ourselves.”

I think once you have achieved your goal you won't be the only one who is astounded.  It will be AWESOME! 

make sure to post your results so we can check it out.   Good luck!

[mikekeswick]

I understand where you are coming from regarding making this bow.
It sounds like you've done enough testing and are maybe over-complicating things.
KISS is a good acronim!
If you are going to make 'mini' limbs to test things they must be scaled in every dimension.
Bow making is all about the ratio of width to thickness of the limbs - this is what determines how far a limb will bend before taking excessive set.
Make your limbs wide and thin enough and it certainly is possible to make a limb that will bend in a tight enough radius to look from the side , at least , like a mongol bow in the way that it bends.
The problem with making wide and thin limbs is that they carry a lot more weight than narrow and deep limb's do for the same stiffness. The beauty of hornbows is that you can make the limbs very narrow/deep compared to wood and hence get a faster return. Take a paper thin wood shaving and look at how flexible it is. It will bend in a full 360 degrees without damage but bend it that far and then release one end and it will return slowly.
Personally I say forget the tests for now, take what you've learnt from them and get the first proto-type built - it will teach you what you need to know.

[james parker]

it is possible to make such bows.. Ive been working in that area for several years now,,, to start ,, you will have many failures,,,many,,, i have tried any and all applications of bamboo for backing and belly,,, a vertical stack glued for the back is just not worth the time involved making such a strip for a backing,,their are limits to any and all natural materials in bow making,,, all can be pushed to their apex,, first the rules have to be learned before the can be bent,,,  all the years i have been making bows it has truly been fun but at the same time its been frustrating and very costly..  my advice ,, no matter what you try or build- write it down , keep immaculate  records on every bow you attempt to build,, this way you wont duplicate so many mistakes and your successes will also be written down ,so as to replicate those bows...

start by building light weight bows and move into heavier # after all the bugs are worked out through your designs.. this will save vast amounts of time and materials= ( money)... have fun building your bows,thats when you will build your best bows....good luck in your endeavors

[Ade-The-Blade]

Thanks for that info, I've recently (in the past few days), modified my design to make it a take down version of my original design. This will enable me to try out different limb designs without having to make a complete bow each time.

I've enclosed an attachment of the basic design. This is not totally to scale, and is really just for my own personal reference. All the fine details and manufacturing processes are already worked out, in my head.

I'm currently waiting for delivery of materials (Ipe & Bamboo), and have already started making the form to press the limbs. I will use Cascamite for the first bow, just to get the project off the ground, as it will save me time and money making the special trough for the hide glue. If all goes well, then I'll replicate using hide glue.

The intention is to have a low poundage bow (approx. 30lb@28), as it will be shot using thumb release.

My Siyah is designed to have maximum leverage upon the limb, whilst allowing more flex in the entire limb. The Siyah itself will be made from vertical laminations of hardwoods laid in different grain orientations. A dowel of horn will be pressed & drilled and the string slot will be cut into it.

I have a few contingency plans in mind, depending on the exact nature of any limb failure. The only foreseeable problem will be with getting the limbs to bend far enough without breaking. I can't anticipate any Siyah, or Riser problems. If the bamboo fails, then I may make a second set of limbs with a flax backing on top of the bamboo. If the Ipe fails, any potential solution will depend on the exact nature of the failure. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

[mikekeswick]

The simplest and perhaps best syhias are to be got from a naturally curved branch. There are hundreds in any patch of woodland! Ash is good because it's easy to split. Cut a piece big enough to be split down the middle so no pith is near where the shyias are sitting in the wood. If the curve needs to be altered then steam and tweak the shape on a form, do both on the same form. This way the grain isn't cut throught anywhere. Pieces like this can also be quick dried in not much longer than it would take to laminate and allow glue to dry. They should be v-spliced into the main limb before the backing is applied. Make your splices 1 inch wide and 4 inches long. Bamboo applied over the finished splice.
If I were you I would reduce the reflex out of the handle.

[PatM]

There seems to be a tendency to grossly overthink the wooden horsebow and doubt the ability of good woods to stand up to all but the most highly stressed of these  designs.
 Pick a design that is known for being longer with less sharply angled siyahs.
Quite a few of them were  known for being 60 inches long with siyahs at only 30-35 degrees.
 People on here make recurves of shortish length and full draw capability all the time.
 There seems to be a misconception that labelling a bow a "horsebow"  instead of just a short recurve somehow stresses the whole bow much more.

[Ade-The-Blade]

Thanks for those replies. I've skewed the image in photoshop to produce a less reflexed handle & slightly altered Siyah angle, as well as longer limb length. Looking at the new image, it seems to be a bit better(less stress on the limbs), so I think I will make the bow to suit this new profile.

[PatM]

Don't be so easily influenced by those glass caricatures that you're drawing your diagrams from. 
 Most of the grave evidence shows a more sweeping backward curve from the handle transitioning to the limbs rather than a severe setback. There ARE varieties that have severe setback but you should be choosing the less severe ones to model the bow after.
 Your siyah joining technique is a very poor one and will add far more mass than a v-cplice and lower angle.

[zdogk9]

There is a bamboo horsebow for sale over on the Korean Traditional Archery forum, there are also links to articles on it's construction.

[Lukasz Nawalny]

I like horsebows , few my bows - selfbows , wood/sinew and horn/wood/sinew  http://www.fotosik.pl/u/robbin/zdjecie/1/album/1150269  .

[Gaur]

There is going to be a high likelihood of the limb breaking right where your riser ends.   For a horse bow design that is where a ton of strain is happening and it seems much too abrupt of a change from riser to limbs like PatM mentioned.

I own one of James' Bamboo Turks and its an amazing bow that I just shake my head at when ever I pick it up.  Light as a feather and shoots real nice.

[Ade-The-Blade]

Hi Everyone,
                   It's been a while since I posted, due to many different things going on in my life. I started the bow in April, but I have to do all the work outdoors, and April has been virtually non-stop rain for the whole month, so there have been a lot of delays. This month, I've been managing to do a little here and there, as time permits.

I've almost finished the first limb. It has a tapered belly of Ipe (1mm at mid-limb and 3mm at riser end, a 2.5mm mid core of mahogany, a 3mm outer core of bamboo, and a 1.5mm backing of rawhide. I will be adding a bit more Ipe at the limb butt, to produce a "tower effect", for re-inforcement purposes.

I have pulled it to an approx. of 26-28 inch draw quite comfortably (19lbs), and it will still pull more. I will shave down the section marked by the red arrows to allow it to bend a bit more. I have also left it approx. 1-2 inches longer than I originally intended, so that I can try for a 30-32 inch draw.

The Siyah was not glued on in the picture, the only thing holding it in place was it's leverage design. When the entire bow is made, I will glue them on temporarily with hot melt, and bind them with linen so that I can test the bow for poundage and draw-length. If the limbs take the strain easily (with plenty to spare), and I decide that I want a higher poundage, then I can cut the limbs down and glue the Siyahs permanently with Cascamite.

So far everything is working out fine, and I've learnt a lot throughout the whole process.

[markinengland]

I've not had great experience with Ipe if it gets to thin. Maybe grain needs to be perfect for it to work but I've had lifts which don't happen when the Ipe is thicker and under less strain.
Bamboo backed with sinew was used in the far east as a more common and less costly alternative to horn/sinew. I've been thinking that with a little compromise in length and limb width a decent bamboo backed bamboo horsebow would be possible.
Will be an interesting thread to follow.
Mark in England

[PatM]

If you're only making a prop horsebow just steam a piece of elm or rattan into an appealing shape.

[gpw]

  Now wasn’t there an article in Primitive Archer magazine , some time ago,  about a gentleman who built a horse bow from wood , and made it work by pre bending 4” of reflex into the mid limbs ...  Maybe about 15 years ago ...