need floor tillering basics- St. Louis

[richpierce]

I have an ash bow mostly shaped and it has a natural deflex or whatever it is called- if I put a string on it now, the string would be on the back of the bow and it would look strung.

The bow is about 70" long, flat limbs 1 and 3/4" wide tapering to the tip.  It is about 0.700 thick now for most of the length- between 5/8" and 3/4" thick.

I need to figure the order of things.  Bending, backing, floor tillering, tillering.

Bending:  I need to bend it a little as it is curved so that the string would be off to one side.

Backing: as it is an ash biw I think i should back it and am considering backing with rawhide or linen fibers or cherry bark.  Sinew seems out of range bacause I have none and it would be expensive.

Floor tillering: I am able to get the bow limbs to straight but it takes some force.  I am not sure how hard to push- it makes me nervous. I don't even have a longbow to compare it to.

I am thinking I should bend it now, do a little more floor tillering, back it, then tiller it.  Is that right?

[tom sawyer]

First I would heat-bend the stave to straighten it and give it a little reflex.  This way you don't melt glue form a backing or anything like that.

Second, I would back it with whatever you choose.  Cherry bark is mostly decorative, rawhide or linen is more of a protective layer.  Hard to find real linen though.

Floor tillering involves leaning on it like you are doing.  It should bend a few inches at least, if not then it needs to be reduced in thickness some.  A little at a time of course.  And while you are at it, sight down the sides of the limbs and see if you can see any thick spots, its good to get the thickness as uniform as possible in the early stages.

I see from your email addy that you are from St Louis (Wash U right?), you a student or a professor?  I am in Hannibal 100 miles to the north.

[Pappy]

I would get it floor tillered first,That will help in the bending process to hold better and easier
to bend and straighten,Then long string tiller,I use a tillering stick but some go straight to the tillering board,either will work.With that much backset be careful not to get it to thin to start with it will fool you very easy to thinking it is a lot heaver than it is until it breaks over.Rawhide or
any of the other backings you mentioned should be fine.I don't know how to explane the presure it takes for floor tiller but you don't want to put to much on it until you get it pretty close.Maybe someone will come on and be able to explane that to you.Good luck.   
Pappy

[Badger]

I suspect there may be a mix up in terms. It sounds like the bow is reflexed and not deflexed to me. If you hold the bow the way you would when shooting it are the tips going away from you or toward you? The back of the bow is the side away from you when you are holding the bow. Steve

[GregB]

Steve is right...need to know what the stave is doing. If you're holding the bow as if to shoot, the side of the limbs facing you are called the "belly", and the side away from you is called the "back". Still holding the bow as if to shoot, if the limbs are curving away from you, that is called "reflex", if they're curving toward you it is called "deflex" or later on after tillering and shooting the bow in it can be called "string follow" if the limbs curve toward you and the bow is unstrung.

Floor-tillering...stand the bow on end down along your right leg if right handed. I hold the handle from the belly side with my right hand, and the upper limb around mid limb with my left hand. I then rotate my hips counter-clockwise while still resting the tip on the soft surface in order to attempt to "flex" the limb some. You want to be able to get some flex, and you're looking straight down the limb looking for "stiff" nonbending area's.

The goal of floor tillering in my opinion is to get a little even flexing going on full length of both limbs. After this is accomplished, we usually put the stave on a form for reflexing and any straightening that needs to be done to ensure the string crosses the handle.

[tom sawyer]

With regards to pressure of floor tillering, you're not trying to pole vault with the thing.  But you can lean on it a bit.  If you break a blank at the floor tillering stage, chances are you saved yourself a lot of time with a bad stave.

[richpierce]

Thanks guys, I was using the wrong term.  It is naturally reflexed quite a bit.  As I hold it with the belly toward me the tips are pointing away from me and a string between the tips would like on the back side of the bow and be 3" off the handle.  The bow feels super strong and I need to floor tiller it some more, sounds like, then bend it till it has no curve side to side.  I think it would be best to stick with the natural reflex, is that right, and not straighten it or make "recurve ears"?

My only resources are the Traditional Bowyer Bible books volumes 1 and 2 right now.

I am at Washington University in St. Louis.

[Badger]

Rich, Something I have been doinfg lately is using the long string a lot earlier in the process and using it longer into the process. When I get the limbs to a point that a firm but not hard push shows some even flex in both limbs I switch to long string and tillering tree. My long string is the same length as the bow with no brace height. Once I get the limbs even I pull the bow to almost full draw weight starting from the very begaining. Seldom ever come in underweight this way. Steve

[tom sawyer]

3" of reflex is a lot, it will make the tillering a little more tricky but you'll have a better bow for it if you succeed.  I wouldn't add "ears" or static tips to the bow.  The tendency in tillering a highly reflexed stave, is to come in under weight.  This is because the thing feels so stiff early in the draw, that you are fooled into thinking it is still stiffer than it really is.  That, and when a limb is loaded up more from the reflex, it needs to be thinner to make the given weight.  Thinner limb, means a narrower thickness taper, which is harder to execute.  Its a touchy tiller, you can easily change the profile with a few swipes of a scraper.

You would do well to floor tiller prior to heat bending, it is easier to manipulate a skinnier piece of wood.

[George Tsoukalas]

It's not the end of things as we know them because the string does no track exactly down the center. LOL. I think if you check my site which may help you with floor tillering, etc. I usually back a bow before stringing it for the first time. Jawge