Hickory Backing - advice on grain

[backgardenbowyer]

Hi Guys,

I've recently bought this laminated ELB stave (osage, action bamboo, hickory) form a bowyer in Hungary I've dealt with before.  I got it to save myself a bit of time in cutting the lams and because osage is unobtainable here. I'm a bit worried about the grain on the backing.  Most of this is good straight hickory sapwood, but this fades to heartwood with quite a sharp run off at a place which will be about mid limb.  I've used backing with heartwood before and found it OK, but wouldn't myself have used wood with this grain.

These staves are sold on the basis that there is a bow in them somewhere and its up to you to get it out (which is true), so I shan't be sending anything back, but if it is really necessary I could plane the backing off and replace it - but a tricky job as the stave is reflexed and doesn't give a good surface for a planer.

What do you think?

Thanks for your views

God bless

Stan

[bubby]

if your worryed you can back it with some linen or silk, Bub

[Prarie Bowyer]

Or bamboo.  I have a bow that is hickory backed and part of the limb is heart wood.  Hasn't been a problem yet.  It's a thin slice so. . .

Watch teh bickerstaff videos on youtube.  Their PREMIUM bow has a backing of a single growth ring hickory the others are flat and side grain hickory.  they even are using strips of heart wood hickory.  Those are $600 average price bows. .... I'm guessing it's ok.

[backgardenbowyer]

Thanks for your thoughts guys - you can always come to PM for views from fellow archer/bowyers, its why I love the place

We tend not to put fabric backings on ELBs here as that would probably disqualify the bow from competition (only wood and bamboo allowed).  I could, however, put a binding round the most suspect area.

Pip Bickerstaff is very particular about the grain in hickory backings - I've shot with him a few times and he looked very critically at one of my bows with hick heartwood in the backing, and at another because there was a slight wabble in the backing grain.  Both those backings have held up - one for almost 5 years hard shooting.

[Del the cat]

We have been told not to link to commercial sites, yet Mr Bickerstaffe's videos are the subject of one thread.
Is this acceptable, as almost everything he does appears to be aimed at his commercial interests.
Or is he a sponsor/advertiser?
Del

[mikekeswick]

Go back to basics - if you cut a stave intending to make a selfbow you would be very careful not to damage the 'underbark' wood as this will be the future back of the bow. Bickerstaffe is in the enviable posistion of being able to buy straight hickory in log form and cut it up into 'perfect' backing strips. Good deal - he does this so his bows don't get returned.
Now most of the rest of us have to buy hickory in already cut up board form so now we have generally less than perfect grain orientation. Straight boards only come from straight trees cut perfectly (to state the obvious). Luckily hickory has excessively interlocking grain so you can get away with 'run-off's' because of it's make up. Descision is yours it may well stay together just because it's hickory not because the grain is acceptable.....your choice!
Personally I spend a lot of time and effort choosing the hickory that I use so that I don't have to rely entirely on hickorys properties.

[Del the cat]

...he looked very critically at one of my bows with hick heartwood in the backing, and at another because there was a slight wabble in the backing grain. ...

Yeah, that would be because it wasn't one of his bows.
I always try to look at other bows with interest rather than criticism.
The other day I saw a Maple bow by a reputable bowyer with grain violations running across the back at about 1 inch intervals over a fair length of the bow. It shot very fast for it's draw weigh and showed no signs of distress.
I filed this away mentally under the 'Always question the conventional wisdom' section.
The impression I get is the Mr B's activities and opinions are all contrived to maximise his business and publicity. This obviously works, as here we are discussing him again
Del

[bubby]

...he looked very critically at one of my bows with hick heartwood in the backing, and at another because there was a slight wabble in the backing grain. ...

Yeah, that would be because it wasn't one of his bows.
I always try to look at other bows with interest rather than criticism.
The other day I saw a Maple bow by a reputable bowyer with grain violations running across the back at about 1 inch intervals over a fair length of the bow. It shot very fast for it's draw weigh and showed no signs of distress.
I filed this away mentally under the 'Always question the conventional wisdom' section.
The impression I get is the Mr B's activities and opinions are all contrived to maximise his business and publicity. This obviously works, as here we are discussing him again
Del

that allways seems to be the case when our hobby becomse our livelyhood, it's a sad state when someone will put down someone else's work just because he didn't make any money on it, Bub

[Pat B]

As long as there is no direct link to a site it is OK to post the company name. Only if the link is to a sponsor's site is a direct link allowed.