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Author Topic: Art sinew for backing?  (Read 6339 times)

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Offline Rick Wallace

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Art sinew for backing?
« on: March 20, 2012, 06:22:25 am »
Is it ok to use this? If so,how many layers and TB 2 or 3 ?
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U.S.ARMY '86-'91  East Milton Fl.   Dont take yourself to seriously,,No one else does

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 08:20:29 am »
"Art sinew" is artificial sinew. It is plastic. Good ol' plastic - nothing more than that. It is not good as a bow backing. There is a polyester type and a nylon type: some have used the polyester type for strings, but I'd stay away from it, myself. For a backing, the polyester type MAY keep some splinters down, but there is much better and easier options.
Since it is plastic, it will not bond with a wood glue such as titebond. You would have to use another glue if you need to glue it down.

Don't use the stuff in bows. It's nice for bindings and stitching, but not as backing or string material.
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Offline Rick Wallace

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 04:02:16 pm »
Thanks,I have a large roll,and wondered,Ill stick with rawhide  :)
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U.S.ARMY '86-'91  East Milton Fl.   Dont take yourself to seriously,,No one else does

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 10:12:10 pm »
Good choice :)
Artifical sinew is nice for leatherwork, though. VERY strong and the color matches tanned leather. Makes for neat stitching in leather handles, or even a quiver.
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"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Bevan R.

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 10:15:38 pm »
Also good for learning to twist bow strings. I also use it for any 'long' (tiller) strings I need.
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Offline PatM

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 12:18:39 am »
Actually polyester is very similar to sinew in its ability to stretch and recover. While you may not want to use it from a purist standpoint the comments Dark Soul makes about the effectiveness are entirely misguided.
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Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 07:25:36 am »
I have yet to see one artificial sinew backed bow. Why would that be? I'm not saying it can't be used, but I seriously doubt polyester artifical sinew is "similar to sinew". If that were the case, we would be seeing this material in strings and backings more often, wouldn't we? Since it's far les hassle to process and much easier to obtain.
I can remember complaints from people over on Paleo Planet that artifical sinew is crap for backings, and lousy for strings. I'm not speaking from experience here - just repeating what other respectable bowyers such as Steve (badger) and Rod have said.

My references: more food for thought on artifical sinew can be found here:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/48295
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/45828
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/36428
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/29716
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/15774
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"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 09:57:26 am »
The few strings I made with it stretched to the moon and BACK. That does make me wonder how it would work as a backing. My concern would be the wax coating and the glue sticking to it. If it hasnt been done then we really dont know how well it may work do we? While I appreciate experienced bowyers and their vast knowledge, I still need to see it attempted before forming my own opinion. Good thing we didnt all stop at the Bent Stick or the TBB's! We have all gone well past some of that into uncharted ground, lets keep doing that!
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Josh B

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 11:04:06 am »
Well said PD!  I have used art. Sinew strings on almost all of the NA style bows I have made.  They work great up to a bout sixty pounds and last a long time. I haven't backed one with it, but I have considered the possibility numerous times. The glue would be the difficulty,even if you could still find the unwaxed art. Sinew.  After all the combination of hide glue and sinew is where the full performance aspect comes in.  I don't know how you would be able to duplicate that unique property with a synthetic .  I would certainly be interested in what you develop or learn about it.  I hope you try it Rick and if you do, please let us know what you discover.   Josh
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mikekeswick

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 01:18:24 pm »
If you need to see it done then do it yourself! ;D
I'm with Darksoul - it's nothing like real sinew either in it's properties or it's possible application. It's not going to reflex a bow nor will it hold a reflexed stave in reflex. As far as i'm concerned it wouldn't be too far from fiberglass when applied....
Aside from all that there are many better options.
Nothing wrong with pondering possibilities but if we are making wooden/natural material bows I really can't see any plus points for artificial sinew.
As for going past whats written in TTB's Pearldrums - I haven't seen any bow that has? Got any examples ;) I think a sentiment in one of them says something like any bow design that we think we've just invented has most likely been done and done a long time ago.
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 01:25:30 pm »
It might work if you could find a glue that it was compatable with and that would stretch and recover the same as the art sinew. There are too many other approriate options for a protective backing to use art sinew. For performance real sinew can't be beat or substituted as a backing.
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 01:27:02 pm »
No examples Mike. I was just blowing air man.
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 01:27:51 pm »
N?
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Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Josh B

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 01:32:26 pm »
Point well taken Mr. Keswick. ;)  I believe I will try it.  I don't normally back any bows for myself. This is something that I will try for no other reason than nagging curiosity.  I don't expect it to come anywhere near the performance of real sinew, but I shall give it a go regardless. Josh
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Offline rossfactor

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Re: Art sinew for backing?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 02:14:10 pm »
I would be interested to see the recovery rate of artificial sinew compared to the recovery rate of real sinew. Also it'd be interesting to know how many times you can stretch either material before recovery begins to decrease, and ultimately causes a backing failure.

Gabe
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Humboldt County CA.
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