a few good days of shooting

[fishfinder401]

i know i don't need that length, it just feels better to me, but if after a while if  i cant find anything longer, i might just do a 72, i have enough for 2-3 bows in it anyway, so i will have other chances

[fishfinder401]

wait a second... i just remembered that the one last stave i have, is a 76inch hickory , i guess i can use a cut from that, i cant believe that didn't occur to me earlier

[fishfinder401]

george, im not sure of any sawmills, but i have checked a few hardwood dealers with no luck yet,  as far as grain orientation i would prefer quarter sawn but if i cant find anything local i might take you up on that, i did find bamboo boards in California but i'm not sure i even want to know the shipping on those

[Ringeck85]

Great video Jake and Noel!  you both looked like you had a fantastic time practicing together and I can't wait to meet and shoot with both of you!

[Pat B]

Noel, I just watched some of your video and I must say I am very impressed!!!  I could only watch 7 minutes of it before I was totally worm out! How many arrows did you and Jake shoot each day?   
   I remember just a year and a half ago I had to ask a young man to drop out of the PA bow trade(not an easy thing for me to do!). I didn't know what you were capable of becuase you had only been on PA a short time and you kept talking about 140# bows(most of us shoot less than half that weight). I figured you were just another wanna be with lots of dreams and that's about all. I knew after our exchanges that you were a fine young man and probably disappointed but still the gentleman!    ...and here you are doing what you said you were going to do. I salute you for your achievements so far.
   Now another lecture!    Please listen to these guys that have been studying and utilizing this method of shooting heavy bows. They have the experience of using this type of shooting but also lessons they have learned from their mentors and from history. Your body is still young(kinda hard to believe after viewing the video) and growing. Too much of anything now in your development will affect you in the future. At 62, I see where I went wrong long ago but it is now too late.
  I know where your goal lies and I want to know you when...but please work up to that goal from a reasonable weight and improve your personal method as you go.
  Again, let me say..I salute you! 

I do have an observation question about the Italian yew warbow though. Is it whip tillered? It doesn't have the classic arc of a circle tiller but seems to have a stiff midsection.

[fishfinder401]

thanks pat , and i am working on a lighter bow so i can work on my technique more, i jsut need to get the steamer set up to take out some side bend, then its on to finishing it up. i dont expect to be able fully use this bow to its limits till mid summer, but in tht time i will hopefully finish the yew im working an ( aiming for 120lbs) and the two hickory backed ipe, one will be around 110-130, the other will be 150is( not going to use it till the very earleist, end of summer, early fall,
as far as how many arrows we shot, we would use about 6 each, each volley with retreaving them was mabey 10-15 minutes.... so with 5hours the first day and 3 the second.... wow when i think about it thats more than i realized
thanks for the complements, and even though it takes some time for the hints they give me to sink in, i will eventually utilize them
noel

[Ian.]

Jake - Full draw with 120lb would shoot 220 without any technique. I think with a little work you should build up to 240yds. I think a good target would be 240 with a standard, but you are going to need good arrows to get that distance. For a livery I would minus 10yds.

[fishfinder401]

Ian, what distance should i be getting with my hickory, the best i got that day was 225, with either a standard of livery( not sure which)

[Ian.]

Hi Noel, Self Hickory tends to be very heavy in mass and thus slower. What you will find is that lighter arrows don't necessarily go further than heavier ones, but for the sake of comparison full draw at 45 degrees I would think 230 would be very good. However I would expect a Livery* arrow to go about the same. If you are already getting 225 then you are doing pretty well, was that paced or measured?

*If you don't know what the Livery arrow is just google the spec from the EWBS webpage.

Also something you both may find useful, google earth has a range finder tool. Its how I measure my distance when I'm shooting on my own.

[fishfinder401]

ok, thanks, i usually use google earth, but for that one i paced, i did notice when we were shooting the hickory for its weight was significantly slower than jakes yew, and even my 70lb ash

[Ian.]

I have made a self hickory before, but at the weight we shoot its not the best. I ended up planing the belly off my bow and putting a new belly on it making it into a laminate, it became a much better shooter.

[Agincourtwarb0w]

Thanks Ian! I appreciate that mate, will be out in the fields with 'er tomorrow, will see what I get!
Noel shot one of my Livery arrows for the 225 yards, but yes it was paced.

[mitch]

Im new to the whole elb and elwb scene and I have some elm billets I can splice together but i was worried on weight for the bow, any suggestions? 

[Yeomanbowman]

Jake,
There are a number of tweaks that you could do to add distance to your shooting but you and Noel look like you have all the raw material there.  Firstly, you are not consistently achieving a 45 degree shot and Noel is shooting very.  This is easy to sort out and you are doing the right thing videoing your technique.  What I thought I was doing and what I was doing were 2 different things the first time I saw a video of myself.   Secondly, by the way you are holding the string you may not be getting a clean loose.  Do your arrows waggle a lot when they leave the bow?  This adds serious drag.
Mike has a good point about holding at full draw but you are right actions speak louder than theory.  His is an actual example.  At the recent EWBS shoot a 140lb heat-treated ash bow made by Jaroslav Petrina was shot with the technique where there is a hold at full-draw.  I think it’s fair to say that any bow made by him will be excellent.  It’s also fair to say that the archer who shot it has a lovely clean loose and always nails his angles at full draw.  His arrows will be well made excellent too.  Juxtapose this distance, shot in good conditions, of 199 yards with that achieved by Al Aston at the recent Warbow Wales shoot with a non-heat treated Welsh ash bow of 223 yards.  Al’s bow was 12lbs lighter and the arrows were commensurate, the Warbow Wales Mary Rose arrow being slightly heavier.  The only other difference was the fact that that Al shot with a hemp string but that would not give you a performance advantage over fastflite, obviously.  The results are here...
http://warbowwales.com/#/st-davids-day-shoot-2012/4561759550
I think the difference in performance is due to the hold at full-draw that wastes energy through hysteresis.  This is all the more apparent in woods like ash and hickory that has high hysteresis in the humid UK.  It’s not as apparent with yew and with the rolling loose you are adding a certain amount of arrow speed through body movement, maybe up to 3 fps.  However, I doubt it’s going to make up for it with white woods.
It will also be kinder to your bows not to hold at full draw as this means less strain on the bow.  If anyone has access to a shooting rig and a chrono then it would be interesting to see the fps difference in a 2 -3 second hold.
Keep up the good work; it's a nice vid too.

Jeremy

[paulsemp]

Very impressive!! Just a word to the wise ( following up on pat's comments), be careful not to blow out your shoulder as you will not be young forever. I am only 32 and have been doing construction for 15  years and I can tell you that in a short time you not only feel it the next day but you will feel it for a week! All the old timers  always told me "your back is fine till your 29" and how true it is. Also a archer from 1000 years ago that shot bows like this every day only lived to maybe to 30 years old if that. So take care of your self.  Enough of me playing mommy. Once again very impressive!!! Maybe I am just jealous I can not even come close to those weights