owl feathers?

[RDK]

I've added this to the list of questions--I hope to start looking at case law this weekend.

I like being cautious-just in case. 

[JW_Halverson]

EXCELLENT point, Sadie-my-lady!  I just realized the explainin' I'd have to do when I have three or four trophy deer heads lined up to go in the pot for european mounts!  For one thing, I'd look like a trophy poacher - the worst kind of poacher.  But secondly, in South Dakota, I need a taxidermists license to do that kinda of stuff for money.  I would also need to register for a tax I.D. and register the company with the Attorney General.  But I don't charge for those services, I only do it for friends.  Ok, now how do I prove I am not charging???  Prove that I didn't get slipped a $50 bill or a nice bottle of 12 yr old Scotch?  I know it would be just as hard to prove I did, but who wants the stink of suspicion attached to their name?  How do you wash that off?

I guess I could make up a simple form stating "I, the undersigned, have not paid John Halverson to do the euro mount of my deer".

[bowtarist]

About 20 years ago now, I got pulled over w/ several, 5+, dryed deer hides, like rawhide w/ the hair on.  The officer called it in and after some time they decided tha tsince there was no meat on the hides I was OK. ?? I don't know, but that's what happened. 

I've got a great story about dog too, if we're sittin around the Classic, someone remind me to tell it.  It'd be like a book on here.

[TRACY]

Good information. Ron made a good point about discretion of the individual officer and your attitude at the time of any incident. I went to college and got a degree in Conservation Law Enforcement here in Indiana where we spent countless hours studying and interpreting State and Federal code. Most classes were taught by present and former State and Federal Game Wardens that would always end any discussion on laws with "Ignorance is no excuse". Another thing to consider when using feathers from legally harvested game, is that as long as you are not offering whole birds or meat for sale, then after the processing or reduction process parts of the animal can be used or in trade. I would be curious to see how well the feathers could be accounted for according to daily possession limits or any other possession limit by law enforcement. The officers I know would not waste their time quantifying feathers unless they had reason to believe that the birds were harvested illegally.

I've hunted waterfowl up and down the Mississippi Flyway and have always been at state of federal check stations that have local fly tiers there to collect feathers for tying flies for fishing. Locally, a man hangs out at the check station with several officers and the biologist present encouraging hunter to share feathers from their harvest for this man. I have no problem with, but it parallels the legal issues stated already pertaining to possession etc. I don't even know if the guy posesses a valid license and stamps.
Sorry to ramble ,but clarification on this might fall into the grey area.

Tracy

There use to be a guy at the Smithsonian in D.C. that could identify just about any feather from any bird around the world. USFWS use to have him testify in court on major avian cases because of his high level of expertise.

[JW_Halverson]

Good information. Ron made a good point about discretion of the individual officer and your attitude at the time of any incident. I went to college and got a degree in Conservation Law Enforcement here in Indiana where we spent countless hours studying and interpreting State and Federal code. Most classes were taught by present and former State and Federal Game Wardens that would always end any discussion on laws with "Ignorance is no excuse". Another thing to consider when using feathers from legally harvested game, is that as long as you are not offering whole birds or meat for sale, then after the processing or reduction process parts of the animal can be used or in trade. I would be curious to see how well the feathers could be accounted for according to daily possession limits or any other possession limit by law enforcement. The officers I know would not waste their time quantifying feathers unless they had reason to believe that the birds were harvested illegally.

I've hunted waterfowl up and down the Mississippi Flyway and have always been at state of federal check stations that have local fly tiers there to collect feathers for tying flies for fishing. Locally, a man hangs out at the check station with several officers and the biologist present encouraging hunter to share feathers from their harvest for this man. I have no problem with, but it parallels the legal issues stated already pertaining to possession etc. I don't even know if the guy posesses a valid license and stamps.
Sorry to ramble ,but clarification on this might fall into the grey area.

Tracy

There use to be a guy at the Smithsonian in D.C. that could identify just about any feather from any bird around the world. USFWS use to have him testify in court on major avian cases because of his high level of expertise.

Always err on the side of caution and if/when you are checked by the law be cooperative and friendly.   Nothing fires up a Law Dog as much as when someone they are speaking with starts to clam up or tries to be cagey.  Set's off their "spidey-sense"!

[bhenders]

So with all this I still can't figure out whether goose feathers are legal or not?
What say you?

[JW_Halverson]

Most likely they will be legal.  Err on the side of caution and call your local Conservation Officer, explain what you are doing with the feathers, how you plan to obtain them, and ask him for a ruling on the legality.   

[RDK]

bhenders-  I'm working on these questions and will post something as soon as I can.  I don't want to answer any questions since I've found some contradictory regulations (surprize.......) and have formally re

I just suggest looking at the references posted earlier.

[RDK]

(that reply got away from me....)

.....and have formally requested clarification.


Tracy you wrote  "Another thing to consider when using feathers from legally harvested game, is that as long as you are not offering whole birds or meat for sale, then after the processing or reduction process parts of the animal can be used or in trade. "  Do you have a reference for this statement?

Thanks,

Ron

[TRACY]

Just off of memory of repeated reading of my state regs while waiting for the ducks to fly.

There is also reference in the Indiana Code about the definition of  poss. Limits and when an animal is no longer part of it. It is state and not federal. If I had the time to peruse federal code on the issue, I would like to see the wording and language about this. This is not limited to PA, and I'm sure other sportsmen groups have dealt with this same issue, especially fisherman making their own tackle.

Tracy

[RDK]

Thanks Tracy-I'll get that information and get back  with it...

Thanks again

[JackCrafty]

One loophole to the "possession of feathers" laws is the immunity that fly tiers have.  If you have a fly tying business or tie your own flies, you may posses all sorts of feathers with the exception of the raptor feathers, of course.  This loophole has been around for a very long time and you will occasionally see people selling migratory game bird feathers with the disclaimer, "for fly tying purposes only".

You need a Federal Tax ID number and a business permit from your state to sell sporting goods if you want to go into the fly tying business.

[Jude]

We had a similar issue, not with feather, but with a whole live bird.  Last August, my son found a baby Eastern Kingbird on the lawn and we could not locate the nest.  We took it in, researched it's diet, and raised it until it was fully fledged.  We do not have a wildlife rehabilitator's permit.  Further research revealed that they tend to migrate in mid-September and we were worried that "Tweetle Dee" had missed the boat.  My wife called the local conservation officer and shared the whole story.  He informed her that we were breaking the law.  When she asked about keeping it for the winter and letting it go in the spring, he told her that then we would be breaking the law for the whole winter.  It took about four days to set her free.  The first couple times, she stayed out all day, then chased me around the yard in the evening because she was hungry and we took her inside for the night.  Then she stayed out overnight, and I would feed her outside a couple times, until she finally didn't come back one day. 

[douglasb]

hi,
          owls are bad luck native americans would never use owl feathers for thier arrows , anything that represents the night is bad luck, goose feathers work great and they are waterproof

[IsaacW]

hi,
          owls are bad luck native americans would never use owl feathers for thier arrows , anything that represents the night is bad luck,

That is a pretty blanket statement and I do not think you can use such over-generalizations to explain ALL tribal groups.  Actually, IIRC, I have seen some original arrows that were fletched with owl.  Anyway... as stated, they are a poor material to use do to their softness and they are illegal as well.