Jamie I like the whole Idea of a primitive thread but it seems that "civilization" won't allow this.(You don't have to be profane to be "Primitive") I noticed this thread was'nt being used. Are there so many civilized people and none of us truly primitives ? Well, I for one like it primitive and that is my way of thinking,why do it complex,if simple gets it done just as good ? I too am a civilized human in that if I have a problem,I don't go shoot the guy(Obviously),but that does'nt mean I won't open my mouth.I like the self bow and a stone arrow head,at ten yards I will kill a deer just as dead as a guy using a 375 H&H. My joy is in the journey as much as the arrival.This is the binder of this group.Too many have got sucked into the "Political correctness"of our current society.I am not that way.I beleive in strength,I like common sense and I like accoustic instruments and guys that can sit around a campfire and talk without a radio playing wide open.I like homemade alcoholic beverages,I like eating meat cooked over coals and I like it really rare. What is the percentage of guys that kill a deer with a bow and arrow that they made,dress it with a stone knife and cook it over an open fire at a camp they made themselves.Use the hide,horns and sinews to make themselves and they're fellow primitives some cool gear.Low percentage. How many of us spend more time in the woods and making stuff than they do in front of the television ? Has civilization gone too far ? Frank