yucca bowstring-added info regarding natural bowstrings

[sadiejane]

good morning all
gun doc dropped of a bag of yucca leaves yesterday.
and i spent the better part of the afternoon processing and making light cordage.
would really like to make a bowstring outta the stuff.
it seems very strong and it also seems like i could get enough strength without being too thick.
anyone here have experience making a yucca bowstring.
advice?
thoughts?
what was the diameter you used?
thanks!!

[Lone500]

Im also interested in this as well. i have a ready supply of yucca and it seems about the best material i have to make a natural bow string with.

[Dictionary]

I imagine you'd just do the reverse twist method with it. Only problem is splicing. Thats always been my weakness when making cordage for a bow drill. I dunno though.

[bubby]

sadie there's a tutorial on youtube, shinbone500, for making yucca rope and bow string, Bub

[Lone500]

apparently what you do is cut a stalk off, scrape the outside off the entire thing then beat it a little bit with a rock to separate the fibers, then you can use as is or pick the fibers down even more.

ya splicing is necessary ofc. but from what i figure if you make a few smaller cords and then make them into a bigger one it all kind of supports each other more than just twisting up a larger cord.

[sadiejane]

thought i would pass this along to others interested in making natural material bowstrings.
found this doing a search on another paleo site.
from tim baker(one of the ttb series authors among other things archery)

"Dogbain. Linen-strong if processed carefully--labor intensive.
Milkweed. Same.
Nettle. Same
Hemp about linen-strong if long-fibered, but such is essentially unavailable now.
Ramie might inherently be the best, but all available is machine processed short fibers, like the available hemp, needing much twisting to become cordage, the extra twisting lowering its strength.
Sinew. Moderately laborious, moderately strong.
Silk. Ok.
Gut. Pretty good if ideally processed. Labor intensive. Tim"

he didnt mention yucca....

on page 250 of tbb II he rates yucca as "fair"
its a great chapter about string.
read it sometime ago-need to sit down and re-read every word again.

hemp he rates almost as high as linen(which he rates the best)
there are numerous places on rivers and creeks round here where "ditch weed" grows.
hmm maybe leave all the leafy stuff behind and just gather the stalks. think id get in trouble for that?
reckon no one would even recognize it without the leaves
of course there be none this time o year but my how times flies.

thanks fellas

[Lone500]

Ive been sick so no cutting wood or splitting wood or any other heavy labor i always have to do. So figured i would play with some yucca today.

i quickly processed the stuff and made a cord. i didnt really process it well ending up with peices that were 1/3 the length of the whole leaf cause i screwed up big time. but i spliced and made a small diameter cord. like 1/3 the diameter of a pencil or so.  i had to splice it like 3 times or so to make like a 12 inch cord.

i pulled on it and only be doing some serious jerking was i able to get it to come apart. and even then it came apart at a poorly spliced section. i was also just using a quick twist method. then i took one of the peices and tried breaking them. best i could do and i still couldnt break it.

So from my little testing seems to me that if you spend a little bit of time and process the yucca leaf and split the fibers up into good long peices then have some patience and do a good twist then a good strong bowstring could easily be created.

Stuff seems extremely strong when wet. i just kind of wonder how it does after it dries out good.

[Dictionary]

Ive been sick so no cutting wood or splitting wood or any other heavy labor i always have to do. So figured i would play with some yucca today.

i quickly processed the stuff and made a cord. i didnt really process it well ending up with peices that were 1/3 the length of the whole leaf cause i screwed up big time. but i spliced and made a small diameter cord. like 1/3 the diameter of a pencil or so.  i had to splice it like 3 times or so to make like a 12 inch cord.

i pulled on it and only be doing some serious jerking was i able to get it to come apart. and even then it came apart at a poorly spliced section. i was also just using a quick twist method. then i took one of the peices and tried breaking them. best i could do and i still couldnt break it.

So from my little testing seems to me that if you spend a little bit of time and process the yucca leaf and split the fibers up into good long peices then have some patience and do a good twist then a good strong bowstring could easily be created.

Stuff seems extremely strong when wet. i just kind of wonder how it does after it dries out good.

hmm.. i have what i think to be yucca growing around here. And i've tried making cordage out of it, but the splicing as i said is always my weakness. I've read of various ways to splice in fibers, from simply inserting into the whisp of fibers and twisting them in, to folding the new fibers into the middle of the 2 opposite fibers. So what way do you splice in your fibers??

Also how long do you guys think a yucca bowstring would last for say a 45-50# bow? Also what is typical life for a well made linen or hemp string? I've never been told.

[Lone500]

i dont even have a bow yet so i cant answer the latter part of your questions dictonary.

as far as the splicing goes-  spread your fingers then ya know link them/cross them. ya know kinda like this



thats essentially how i splice my cords. seperate each end where you want to splice and work them together then twist it all up. the more overlap you have the stronger the splice will be and the stronger the cord will be but the thicker it will be. the bigger diameter cord your making the more you need to overlap your splice.

im certainly no expert on cordage so if anyone has any other thoughts on this post it up!

[Dictionary]

i dont even have a bow yet so i cant answer the latter part of your questions dictonary.

as far as the splicing goes-  spread your fingers then ya know link them/cross them. ya know kinda like this



thats essentially how i splice my cords. seperate each end where you want to splice and work them together then twist it all up. the more overlap you have the stronger the splice will be and the stronger the cord will be but the thicker it will be. the bigger diameter cord your making the more you need to overlap your splice.

im certainly no expert on cordage so if anyone has any other thoughts on this post it up!

Are you saying you just splice by twisting in the new fibers into the prexisting fibers that are running out of length? Then "lock" them in by continuing the wrapping process?? That is how i was doing it but my splices were very weak.

[sadiejane]

as for the processing, found it relatively simple.
but instead of trying to get the green outer material off as i was pulling fibers apart(as i found in most youtube vids)
simply laid the leaf flat on a table and took an old kitchen knife and scraped all the green off first.
then lightly pounded and the fibers began to separate. got a good amount of 15-20" fibers out of each leaf.
hung em  up to dry.
my understanding(tho i dont have the experience yet to say for sure) is that the fibers are actually stronger when dry.
it was quite easy and quick(maybe 20 mins) to make a very thin two ply reverse twist cord about 8' long.
spliced of course, but i cannot pull it apart even when i stand on one end and pull all i can up on this thin cord.
it seems most folks prefer a three ply reverse twist for bow strings. didnt have time to try that today
but from the vids i have watched it appears it is the same as two ply but with three strands?
someone please correct if i am wrong about that. i could only find one youtube vid that showed it very well.
i was thinking of making two three ply cords then reverse twisting them together.
it appears from what little ive done so far that would make a decent thickness of cord for arrow nocks.
but of course i have no means to determine strength....
will update either tomorrow or early next week when i have had the opportunity to work with the yucca fibers further.

thanks!!

[Lone500]

pretty much thats how i do it dictionary. you probably just need to increase your fiber overlap for your splice or your twist is a little off. just takes a little experience i believe. i didnt get all the nuances of cordage in a couple hours and im sure i have more to learn.

and ya sadie thats how i did it. just scrap it off the whole leaf which is pretty easy to do. i found it easier to scrap in 1 direction instead of back and forth as i could get really long scraps out that way. gotta watch cuttin the fibers tho. if yucca is stronger dry then wet then i bet we got a winner! i just wonder what amount of stretch it has.

im not sure exactly how you would determine proper strength for a bow.

[Dictionary]

as for the processing, found it relatively simple.
but instead of trying to get the green outer material off as i was pulling fibers apart(as i found in most youtube vids)
simply laid the leaf flat on a table and took an old kitchen knife and scraped all the green off first.
then lightly pounded and the fibers began to separate. got a good amount of 15-20" fibers out of each leaf.
hung em  up to dry.
my understanding(tho i dont have the experience yet to say for sure) is that the fibers are actually stronger when dry.
it was quite easy and quick(maybe 20 mins) to make a very thin two ply reverse twist cord about 8' long.
spliced of course, but i cannot pull it apart even when i stand on one end and pull all i can up on this thin cord.
it seems most folks prefer a three ply reverse twist for bow strings. didnt have time to try that today
but from the vids i have watched it appears it is the same as two ply but with three strands?
someone please correct if i am wrong about that. i could only find one youtube vid that showed it very well.
i was thinking of making two three ply cords then reverse twisting them together.
it appears from what little ive done so far that would make a decent thickness of cord for arrow nocks.
but of course i have no means to determine strength....
will update either tomorrow or early next week when i have had the opportunity to work with the yucca fibers further.

thanks!!

8 feet in 20 minutes?! I can't say i could do half that in 20 minutes. Could you post that video you mentioned about 3 ply? Keep us updated.

[Lone500]

there are some shortcuts for twisting some quick cordage dictionary. none are as strong as doing a good tight take your time twist tho.

[mikekeswick]

To get the most out of yucca you really need to make threads of around 10lb breaking strain. Then work out the required strength. 50lbs bow = 200lbs string  + 10lbs extra for a little safety, 210/10 = 21 strands. 21/3 = 7. 7 strands per ply (3ply string).
If you just make a 2 or 3 ply string then it will be fairly large diameter-wise and prone to breaking.
As already mention Tim Bakers excellent chapter in TTB2 is an absolute must for anyone wanting to make quality strings and not something just thrown together.
3 ply is better than 2 ply because the outer fibers are less strained so the string can be lighter or safer (your choice). It is also more tubular with less dead mass and therefore less likely to be 'worn out' prematurely. It isn't much harder when you've made a few.
Try making a string like i've described above and a 2 ply string of the same breaking strain. You will find the simple 2 ply to be heavier,less easy to knot, less durable and not as nice to look at.
My ltest yucca string has been shot at least a few hundred times with a 60lb recurve (lot of string tension), I was a little worried to begin(because it's a really nice bow!) with but it's settled down nicely now and as long as it's kept waxed so it doesn't dry out I have faith in it.
Making a real quality string from plant to shooting is a very satisfing thing. Good luck