Bending Black Locust? and your thoughs on using it for a Recurve?

[Elktracker]

I have some smaller diameter black locust like 3 to 3 1/2" through staves, I wanted to make a recurve from one of the staves but I Have never worked with black locust or done any heat bending to this extreme on it. I am going to be leaving the sapwood on unless I can chase a ring but the rings are very small . I know most say you must take the sapwood off but then again they say the same thing about Osage and I have seen some great sapling bows with the sap wood on and they shoot great!

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this wood is a good canidate for this bow? I plan on making it around 62" before heating in the recurves. I was also going to make the limbs either 2" wide or at the least 1 3/4" wide to around mid limb and then taper to thin tips. Do these demensions sound ok to you? I want to try and shoot for 55#@26"

What would be the best type of heat to use for the bending, dry heat or steam? Any other thoughts or opinions on this would be much appretiated! Thanks

Josh

[Pat B]

Locust bends well with dry heat. Similar to osage. Your dimensions sound good. Be sure the belly is flat and go very slow. Locust is susceptable to fretting if over stressed or hinged. Locust does handle heat treating the belly well also.

[Elktracker]

Thanks Pat good info to know, I may just heat treat it right off the get go then. Will the heat treating help slim down the chances of it fretting as long as I dont get any major hinges or over stress the wood while tillering? Also what are your thoughts on leaving the sapwood on? I know there are mixed feelings on the subject and wouldnt mind input from both sides of the fence on this one. Thanks again

Josh

[mikekeswick]

I made the exact same bow you just described from b.locust a month or two back and it's now my favourite.
I made the limbs a shade under 2 inches wide out of the fades to about mid-limb then into 3/4 wide about 8 inches from the tip and about 3/8ths at the nocks. The recurves were bent with steam to about 70 degs. Tillered it to about 20 inch then heat treated it and got the recurves a little sharper at the same time. Personally I think short sharp (as you dare!)recurves are the way to go. Sharp because you get string angle benefits, short because they weight less and are naturally more laterally stable so you can reduce the width more. +++
Locust is a great wood IMHO and seems to handle moisture well when heat treated.
Good luck

[Elktracker]

Thanks mike, did you post it on here? I would love to see a picture of it if possible?? Was the sap wood left on?

Josh

[mikekeswick]

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,28587.msg379228.html#msg379228
This is that bow!

[Elktracker]

Thanks Mike Im not sure how I missed that but it is a beauty!!! Very nice bow!

I tried chasing a ring las night just to see if I could tell one from the other and in the sap wood I couldnt tell one from the next to save my life! Will the heart wood be easier to tell rings apart? Thanks

Josh

[Pat B]

Josh, as long as you know the sapwood is sound and disease free I think it would be OK to leave a ring or two on the back.
  I'd listen to Mike. He seems to have locust figured out. 

[Elktracker]

Thanks pat

Josh

[blackhawk]

What kind of lighting were u using?...but yeah its a pain to distinguish sapwood rings,but the heartwood will be much easier,and its usually pretty easy to tell the last sapwood ring or two as it is almost transitioning to heartwood.

[Elktracker]

Thanks Blackhawk I will keep going on it slowly and see if it gets easier to distiguish, my lighting is pretty good where I was working but I am setup in a basement and I work mostly at night so I dont get any natural light, ill try setting up some better lights. Thanks

Josh

[hedgeapple]

If you can't work outside with natural, halogen lighting is the next best IMHO, maybe even better, because you can adjust the angles of the light.  It gets pretty hard trying to move that big ol sun around. 

[Elktracker]

Thanks hedgeapple ill give a hallogen a try

Josh

[George Tsoukalas]

What a site! Such great advice above. Elk, I've made lots of BL bows. In fact, I cut my bow making teeth on it. I've made BL sapling bows with heartwood backs and sapwood backs.
As Blackhawk said the closer you can get to the heartwood the denser the sapwood. My position on sapwood is take it off unless doing so means you don't have enough wood to make a bow left. In that case get as close as you can to the heartwood. Jawge

[Elktracker]

Thanks jawge!

Josh