Stick to standards or "wing it"

[jcathunter]

I've mentioned before I'm a complete NEWB.  I played around with some dry yew that was very thin and actually got a nice start on something my daughter could shoot.  I only played with it because I figured it would help me get a feel of what I was doing.  Because the stave was so thin (side to side) it got me wondering how many people just "wing it" when laying out a new bow and how many stick to standard sizes.  Do you just go with the stave and what it allows or do you find a stave to fit a particular style?  I've got some viney drying right now and I know the type of bow I'm hoping to make but I don't if I'm barking up the right tree so to speak. 

[JW_Halverson]

The answer to your question is YES. 

I always let the stave determine what it should be AND I pick staves to fit what I wanna build.  Confusing, right?  Obviously you can always cut down a stave, or scrape a few pounds off a bow but you can't stretch them and putting weight back on, while possible under some circumstances, is difficult for a beginner to master. 

The yew that you started on is perfect, in other words it was available.  As for standard sizes, they are kinda fluid.  For example I often build osage flatbows with stiff handles that have parallel limbs until the last 8-10 inches where I taper them to 3/8th inch tips.  For a bow like that there is a simple formula for length...double the draw length and add 10%.  For width of the limbs I have made them as narrow as 1 1/8 and as wide as 1 3/4.  You can certainly go narrower or wider but you have to be willing to accept what will happen. 

By going narrower the wood will have to be a little thicker to acheive the goal for draw weight and subsequently will probably end up taking more "set" (it will stay partially bent into it's strung shape) and maybe lose a fair amount of speed.  By going excessively wide your limbs will weigh more because there is more wood out there.  When you release the string, it will waste more potential energy overcoming inertia and when the string suddenly reaches the end of it's travel all that rapidly moving weight has to be stopped - causing more hand shock.    A bow like that will be pitiful with light weight arrows, slow speed and lotsa handshock, but it will launch a heavier than normal arrow better and soak up some shock making it a good bow for short range heavy game hunting.

Since you have some vine maple drying you have the luxury of thinking about what you want the bow to do for you.  Target shooting with friends on a summer evening?  Roosevelt elk in the Olympic Peninsula?  Pheasants on the wing in Presho, South Dakota?  Archery Golf?  Historical re-enactments?  Wall hanger?  Padded blunt arrows delivered to that neighbor that always stops with his dog on a leash so he (the dog or the neighber) can crap in your yard? 

I got into bow making not to shoot 'em or even hunt with 'em.  I had no interest at all in that.  I just wanted to make something with my hands that was beautiful.  And she was, still is, just not shootable anymore.  Somewhere along the way I got busy shooting 'em and hunting with 'em. 

I know this is a longwinded post just to get to my point, but here it is:  What is it you are looking to acheive with this bow making?

[Del the cat]

I generally have an idea what I want to build, but that has to be adjusted to suit the available wood.
Strange but every time I try to make a 72" bow from a 60" stave something goes wrong
So you pick an approximate style to suit the stave, the beauty of Yew (or Osage) of course is that it will make almost any style.
But within the basic styles there is a huge amount of variety, and then there's the shape of tiller, some prefer stiff long handles and stiff tips, some like an arc of a circle tiller. Even with an ELB you can make it full compass, stiff handled, stiff tipped or whip tillered.
Of course they always turn out exactly as anticipated
Del

[jcathunter]

Thanks guys.  Your posts make perfect sense and that was kinda my plan to start with.  Just go with what the stave tells me to do.  My goal with a homemade bow is kind of odd.  I've bowhunted with compounds, shot game at a half mile with a sniper rifle, you name it so now, I want to make a bow and shoot a cougar and/or bear out of a tree with it over dogs that I've trained myself.  I've trained many a dog so the bow is the only obstacle. 

[Del the cat]

Dunno if you've seen my website and Bowyers Diary.
Google delsbows or bowyers diary to find 'em... it's nearly all selfwood bows from staves.
(Although the Chinese Repeating Crossbow is worth a look too!)
Del

[JW_Halverson]

Ah!  A cat bow!  Now that is a hearse of a darker color!

Here's the scenario.  Dogs strike hot scent, cat lights out for the high country.  You are packing as little weight as possible to keep up with the hounds.  You scrabble up and down rough country trying to keep as close as you can when you hear that one hound with the bell mouth light up.  She's usually a gentle bitch with you and kids, but that all goes out the window when they get something treed.  Your heart is already pounding from the excercise, but it grabs another gear you never knew you had. 

I'll tell you this, English Longbow styles are the most accurate and forgiving of all bows to carry and shoot.  And also the last choice for running thru cover, bailing off ridgelines with rocks and scree racing you to the bottom.  You might consider a recurved, bend in the handle, sinew backed, almost-horsebow.  Your shot will be close range, but you want some power behind it.  Osage, or hickory if ou live in a dry climate, inch and a quarter wide and two inches shorter than your draw length (providing you flip or recurve the tips).  This could be as short as 50" depending on how long your draw is.  Cover the sinew backing with rawhide and a Massey finish to seal 'er tight would be my choice. 

I hunt cougar in the Black Hills of South Dakota much the same way, without the dogs.  Dogs are illegal here at this time.  I strike track on mornings after a snowfall and push like a fiend to try to bay or tree the cats.  I carry the bow and three arrows in my left, using my right hand to push treebranches and brush outa the way.  The bow is unstrung and I use a wrap of masking tape as a string keeper on either end.  That way I avoid having to worry about getting the bow hung up on an obstacle. 

I've never treed a cat yet, but there was one I was pushing pretty hard, he was doing 30 ft a jump at one point.  But the sun was going down and I had covered at least 8 miles after leaving my vehicle.  Lemme tell you, that was one cold and scarey slog back to the old Isuzu Trooper.  I ached for 2 weeks.

[jcathunter]

Nice!!!  I've tried to tree them on foot, as well since it is illegal here, too.  What I found is that they will circle me in the brush sometimes as tight as a 20yd circle coming right back across my tracks.  They tree so easily with dogs, I know it is possible to put them up if a guy stays on them.  For bear, I'd probibly go to Ca. and have a friend of mine tree one for me since I don't let my dogs run bear and, for lion, I'll go to Nevada. 

[PEARL DRUMS]

I get idea's floating around for 3-4 months in my head. Once "complete" I go to my stave vault and grab the exact stave I need to build what my mind see's. It works out 85% of the time for me. Sometimes your just forced to build what the stave allows rather than what it look's like it should allow! Ohhh but the ones that match up with what you imagine are soooo sweet when that first arrow fly's!

My advice is to look for a style specific stave in your case. I would look for something wide, clean and straight of just about any decent bow wood and make a wider, longer bow. Its hard to break a wide, flat bow of most any decent bow woods. It will allow you to learn as you go without breaking too soon in the game. Thats just my two cents.

 Have fun!

[crooketarrow]

  I just let the stave tell me. I very seldom out line the bow I just build it. So I guess I wing it.

[Pat B]

I always let a stave suggest what it wants to be. You can fight it and force it into what you want it to be but IMO you'll come out better if you go with the flow.