thin ringed osage

[luke the drifter]

hello all and happy thanksgiving,

i am working a piece of Osage orange that has about 20, rings plus or minus 3.  for me that is hard to believe but it is for real.  i remember Mr. St. Louis saying in a topic that thin ringed Osage orange may be of poor quality to work with.  If he is reading this, i hope he would elaborate if any elaboration is warranted.  would this be an example?

[luke the drifter]

my apologies Mister St. Louis if you were not the one that said this.

[gstoneberg]

I'm not Marc, but I've never noticed a difference in osage based on ring thickness.  Down here in Texas, the wood seems to have much tighter rings than further north.  Maybe cause it's drier?  Anyway, I think the tillering process naturally accounts for changes in wood density which is probably why I've never noticed a difference.  Perhaps I should start measuring working limb dimensions? 

Now I'm curious what the experts think too.

George

[Pappy]

I like thinned ringed Osage,as long as it is thick enough to chase ,say a 1/16 or more, It seems denser to me and seems to make a better bow.JMO.
  Pappy

[PEARL DRUMS]

I cant comment on stronger or weaker ring ratios, but I will say super thin ringed stuff gets rawhide or sinew. I dont mess around with 3 day ring chasing marathons. Its not worth the grey hair to me!

[mikekeswick]

It's not really the thickness of the rings more the ratio of latewood to earlywood that makes a difference to density. Althought more rpi means you are a little more likely to have more earlywood proportionately.
It doesn't really matter though - just make the limbs a little wider than normal then it if shows little set by final tillering then narrow the limbs.

[George Tsoukalas]

What Pappy said. Around here there is no such thing as bad osage. Osage doesn't grow on trees in NH. If I don;t like the early to late wood ratio or if the rings are thin I leave the bow 1.5 in wide. Leave it wider. Jawge

[Pat B]

I like thin ringed osage. It seems to me to be more resilliant. If the rings are too thin to chase I back it with rawhide.

[sadiejane]

great topic. have made one bow with very thin(1/16") rings that indeed got rawhide backing and seems to be holding up well. on that one i was able to successfully get the back to one ring. but, now i have this 100 yr old osage post a friend gave me from their family farm. it's ring are half the thickness of the previous one. more like 1/32". narrowest rings ive seen so far on a piece of osage. split it and tried to chase a ring-arrgghhh. not sure i could ever successfully get a ring chased on that puppy. but it is such beautiful wood. shold be used for something.  aged darkly all the way thru. so pat et al, you guys think it could make a bow with sinew? even if there was violation of the ring on back? it just keeps sitting in the corner of the shop mocking me...daring me...taunting me...

[Pat B]

I've successfully made rawhide backed osage bows with very thin rings, knots and pins. I get the back as clean as possible but violations are inevadable. The rawhide seems to hold well so sinew surely would. I did have one of these bows blow(Shere Khan) but it was late at night, spirits were involved(I don't mean ghosts!  ) as was overdrawing. Everything the manual tells you not to do! 

[PeteC]

I have to agree with what Mike said. I have built many bows of all different thicknesses of rings. If the "early wood" is a"paper thin"line,you can bet it will make a good to great  bow. It's when the early wood layer starts to thicken that the quality,or performance,of the bow will start to decline,but,it may still make a good bow. JMHO God Bless

[crooketarrow]

 True the thicker the ring the less likely to break the bow (BACK). But I've make lots of thin ringed bows. I uselly use the back under the white wood. But if I do have to chase a ring and it's around a 1/8  I use a draw knife mostly. I made lots of bows with rings down to a 32nd then I revert to a scraper. But these make find bows. You just have to be more carrefull you don't volate a ring. 1/8 IS GREAT BUT MOST OF MINE ARE AROUND A 16 TH.

[SA]

i have a couple of logs w/ super thin (paper thin) and was going to try rawhide backing but  i wonder if splitting it and trying a backwards bow like the one pappy posted would work?

[gstoneberg]

... you guys think it could make a bow with sinew? even if there was violation of the ring on back? it just keeps sitting in the corner of the shop mocking me...daring me...taunting me...

Yes.  I made 1 sinew backed bow where I made no attempt to follow a ring and it worked fine.  As I recall I decrowned that one and draw knifed the bow back very flat.  2 courses of sinew make an extremely durable bow.

George

[lowell]

Never worked with a thick ringed osage.  Everything around here is thin and the seem to work out ok!!