Osage longbow - good snake verses bad snake...

[toomanyknots]

Good snake - The kind that does not effect tiller





Bad snake - The kind that makes tillering a pain in the backside



Man this little curve has caused me so much trouble trying to tiller. If it looks good to the eye, then it's way to strong, as it started out deflexed. If it's working evenly with the other limb, the bow looks ridiculously unbalanced. Here is the horrid tiller photo. (the crappy quality of the photo may make it look better than it really is)



 I would say that I have a hinge on the left limb about 10" after the tip, with a flat spot on the last ten inches of the limb, and a flatspot on the main middle of the bow. I had just had this problem (curvey end) with an identical mulberry stave, fortunately this one is osage and larger, so it has the added benefit of shooting slower than crud and painful handshook. Whoo Hoo. I hate osage longbows anymore. As you can notice I left the sapwood on. Did not reduce handshock in anyway. It is pulling around 65# I would guess (haven't measured it yet). I was gonna put horn nocks on this one but everything from the tiller I am getting tired of adjusting to the handshock is making me think twice. I guess I am being a bit lazy though, seeing as how I know I could easily reduce the tips some. I just don't wanna end up with too much set, as I already have 2 1/2" on one and 1 1/2" on the other. (Plus, being lazy,  )

A big ol knot on the belly right by the handle:

[gstoneberg]

Yup, I would have heat bent that deflex out if at all possible.  My last attempt at a bow with deflex wasn't very stellar.  It's just hard. 

George

[RyanY]

As I'm sure you already know, it is super whip tillered. The reason it took so much set is because all the work is being done in the outer limbs. I'm surprised that it has any hand shock since there is not a lot of moving mass. Osage or not there should hardly be any hand shock on a bow with that tiller unless the tips are ridiculously massive.

[toomanyknots]

Well I don't usually make my osage bow tips ridiculously massive so I guess this bow is the exception ryoon. I got the bow working in the middle and for some reason the handshock went away, also it shoots quite quick and hard now. Counter intuitive to logic, of course. As is almost every bow I make anymore. It still does not bend right at the 10" or so middle part of the bow where the handle would be.

"The reason it took so much set is because all the work is being done in the outer limbs."

It only took about an 1" set, on one limb, as it already had about 1 1/2" on both limbs, as I said the stave was deflexed. And yes I understand, as I have said and pointed out, that the bow is not working in the center in the tiller picture.

"Yup, I would have heat bent that deflex out if at all possible.  My last attempt at a bow with deflex wasn't very stellar.  It's just hard"

I'm used to messing with deflexed staves, but that little curve screws me up so bad. I was kinda looking to see if anybody had the same experience before with something similar. One thing that may contribute to handshock is the fact that right at the center of the deflexed curve, (you can see in the picture) I have to leave a good amount of wood there or it will bend so much it is crazy, and the over all tiller will look horrid, even though the limb would be working equally. My person preference would be to have the limb work evenly and the tiller "look" good. That is just me. You would think I would leave the whole limb an equal thickness, but when a curve is deflexed so much like that in a limb I have found, you really have to leave a good amount of extra wood to sculpt the tiller into an arch.

[toomanyknots]

Braced 6 1/2". Deflexed curve is on the left.



Improved tiller.



Maybe my wacky tiller was causing the handshock?..?..? Oh well. What do you people think. Is is worthy of horn nocks? It seems to shoot well since I actually gave it an actual tiller...

[mikekeswick]

Personally I don't get too worried if a deflexed section 'looks' to be bending too much. I would recommend you get some calipers to check the thickness taper is even. Calipers are my 'go to' tools when i'm not sure about a section of character. Even thickness taper is king! I understand what you are saying about making the tiller 'look' like the wood was straight to begin with but with deflexed sections that area would be sat there not doing much - (strainwise) so it's dead mass which will affect handshock - probably in this case because one limb is heavier than the other. When you shoot the bow the heavier limb will try to keep going forward.
I agree with you that bows with spots like that can be a real pain in the *$£%

[toomanyknots]

One thing you have to think about though is string angle. If I were to keep an even thickness taper, the bend would produce almost a 45 degree angle, making the bow stack horribly... Of course this could all be avoided by taking Georges advice and steaming it out!

[Pappy]

I would get it bending a little more out of the fads and let it go at that.I would
have probably tried to straightened some of that kink out to start with but now
I would go with what you have.
   Pappy

[mikekeswick]

The other thing to think about though, which in my opion is more important, is the fact that the wood to the handle side of the deflex is getting too much stress
Seeing as it's osage it can probably handle it...remember chrysals usually happen when there is a stiff section of limb.
I understand what you are saying about striking a balance - everybody has there own way of doing things. Personally I don't care if the tiller isn't a nice arc as long as the thickness or width taper is perfect.
I agree with Pappy.

[toomanyknots]

The other thing to think about though, which in my opion is more important, is the fact that the wood to the handle side of the deflex is getting too much stress
Seeing as it's osage it can probably handle it...remember chrysals usually happen when there is a stiff section of limb.
I understand what you are saying about striking a balance - everybody has there own way of doing things. Personally I don't care if the tiller isn't a nice arc as long as the thickness or width taper is perfect.
I agree with Pappy.

To illustrate what I am saying visually, this is what the bow looked like (the identical mulberry stave) when I had the limbs thickness evenly reduced: (also the bow was a longbow, just incase it might have something to do with it)

-This is the bow with an uneven limb balance, the left limb is a good amount stronger to bring it to an even look-



-This is kinda what is looked like when the limbs were actually evenly working and balanced, kinda like a weird looking yumi-



It stacked horribly and was not a nice bow to look at.

I would get it bending a little more out of the fads and let it go at that.I would
have probably tried to straightened some of that kink out to start with but now
I would go with what you have.
   Pappy

I guess it would probably be smarter to try to steam the little deflexed curve out than try to go to battle with it on the tree next time! 

[Gus]

Thank you for sharing your G.S./B.S. Osage in this thread Toomany...

Man, I still have A LOT to learn...   

-gus