i made these for tim. eddie, james, and i cut a bunch of cane back in dec. when we were hog hunting. i cut about 20 and only got seven to spine in the 60# range that i was wanting, even after tempering the hell out of them. since tim is getting into primitive archery, i'm hoping he'll take a hog or deer this year with some cane arrows that grew on his property. if i can find a good set up, i may try for a hog with a stone point.