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Author Topic: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?  (Read 2983 times)

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Offline John W. Cooper

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Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« on: June 24, 2011, 12:03:49 pm »
Hello,

I've noticed that some r/d bows have the reflex really close to the tips (almost like a recurve) and some place the reflex at mid-limb (I've only done this shape).  I'm planning on doing some testing of different placements of reflex but I just wondered if anyone has found much of a difference in performance.

John
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It is God who arms me with strength
   and keeps my way secure.
He makes my feet like the feet of a deer;
   he causes me to stand on the heights.
He trains my hands for battle;
   my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
~Psalm 18:32-34

Offline Bow Nut

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 12:39:13 pm »
Personally I have only done this on laminated bows but I like it closer to the end.  The reason I like this is because I leave it semi static only starting to unbend at about half draw to full draw because it changes the string angle making for less stack and smoother draw with no false weight.  But I have never done and experiment on which way shoots faster.
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 12:48:46 pm »
Dean Torges calls a bow with reflex in the tips a hunting bow suitable for heavy arrows, he says a bow with reflex mid limb is a target bow designed for flatter shooting and higher speed. I have built both ways and cant tell them apart.
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline John W. Cooper

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 01:10:53 pm »
I'm doing this only with my bamboo-backed bows, but I see how the string angle would help things.

Quote from: PEARL DRUMS on June 24, 2011, 12:48:46 pm
Dean Torges calls a bow with reflex in the tips a hunting bow suitable for heavy arrows, he says a bow with reflex mid limb is a target bow designed for flatter shooting and higher speed. I have built both ways and cant tell them apart.

I can see how this would be kind of like the difference between a recurve and a longbow as far as heavy vs. light arrows go.  All things being similar (i.e. length and width of bow, amt of reflex, good tiller) I don't think I will be able to tell them apart either.  I think so many things in archery are like "Dumbo's feather": if we're told something works a certain way, it will! ;D  Does this merely come down to aesthetics?

John
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It is God who arms me with strength
   and keeps my way secure.
He makes my feet like the feet of a deer;
   he causes me to stand on the heights.
He trains my hands for battle;
   my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
~Psalm 18:32-34

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 01:17:10 pm »
Good anology John. It seems that way to me as well. I think Dean's comment is derived from the amount of actual working limb left over? Not sure.
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline John W. Cooper

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    • Bronze Bow Archery
Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 01:26:22 pm »
Of course if/when we make as many bows as Dean, I'm sure we'll be able to tell the difference.  I don't in any way want to come off as an arrogant beginner from that last comment.  At times it just seems like some people lose the fun of bowmaking by over-analysis. 

John
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It is God who arms me with strength
   and keeps my way secure.
He makes my feet like the feet of a deer;
   he causes me to stand on the heights.
He trains my hands for battle;
   my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
~Psalm 18:32-34

Offline Buckeye Guy

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 04:22:39 pm »
John
I like the Dumbo analogy !
I find it very fitting to allot of archery widgets !!
As I only do a stick with a string I will leave the rest for you folks to ponder on !!
Hope to see some of you Michiganders at GLLI !
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Offline TheWildCat

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 05:02:45 pm »
Actually, I think y'all got it backards...I believe Dean calls a Target bow one with the reflex in the Tips and Mid limb to close to the riser as Hunting bow able to handle heavier arrows. I am plannin on buildin the Huntin bow he describes as soon as my Osage get dry enough. With the reflex closer to the riser, more limb is working to handle the heavier arrow. I have ate lots a Crow in my life, so ifin I got this un wrong I will get my cook book out!!!. I perfer Crow Fried!!!
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Offline Kegan

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Re: Placement of reflex in r/d bows?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 07:55:53 pm »
Ok... let me think about it!

Assuming the bow is deflexed is in the riser:

-Full length reflex will result in a more rounded tiller. Because the tips are bending, when compared to the other design, the mass is less, but you have you don't have the same leverage. In fiberglass bows most folks notice that these bows have less handshock, and in wooden bows it would take less set for the same mass.

-End of the limb tapers provide stiff levers. This can increase efficiency, but of course stiff levers are always troublesome- are you overworking the inner limbs? Are the tips too heavy? This is the style I use in my fiberglass lam bows because the fiberglass takes no set, but the stiff tips make great levers (lever use is in TBB vol. 4). Morks like a lightweight recurve, and recurves dominated in speed before, now super light tipped R/D bows are showing who's boss.

For normal arrows, 8+ gpp, so long as the reflex is the same you shouldn't notice any difference in speed or smoothness, and I would think the more even curve of the full length reflex would help with set, and this is pretty more along the lines of the R/D bows that Marc St. Louis builds- clearly those are shooters!
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